The New 2 Minute Trader System

3stars

The 2 Minute Trader Plus System Review

Price: £34.95 Per Month

I have been testing this newly launched 2 (Two) Minute Trader System and the results have been interesting. All details below. It does take longer than 2 minutes per day, and is fairly expensive, but you can read the indepth review on this page.

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3stars


Editors rating

As I have reviewed a few of Tim Lowe’s Products, plus I was recently asked if I would trial The 2 (Two) Minute Trader System, which is the latest product to hit the market by Waverley Media. As honoured as I always am to trial a new system, and as this new product is covering the Betfair exchange, I was also eager to see if there really was anything new being presented.

As many of my readers know, I have a keen interest in anything that claims to make a profit from the betting exchanges, whether they be betting systems, or contain a little more trading criteria in the methodology.

Please note, that I am NOT recommending the new 2 Minute Trader Plus

This review was for the original 2 Minute Trader Product (which has now closed), I have not tested the new £80 per month Plus version, and therefore please do not take this review as a recommendation of the latest product, it is not.

I was asked if I would test the Two Minute Trader as if I was a ‘newbie’, and to see if there was any ‘flaws’, and as I just love Betfair products, I was happy to oblige.

Let’s start the review:2 Minute Trader System

Product Title: 2 Minute Trader System Plus (new Plus version not tested)

Website: www.2minutetrader.co.uk & www.2-minute-trader-plus.com

www.2minutetrader.com

Offered By: Waverley Media

Price: £34.95 per month. (Over £400 a year) and the 2 Minute Trader Plus £80 a month (£960 a year)

What You Get:

  • Membership access to the system
  • Downloadable manuals
  • Complete alert service on profitable trades
  • Full training
  • Video tutorials
  • Alert service for selections

Guarantee: Full Money Back Guarantee – Cancel subsription at any time.

What Is The 2 (Two) Minute Trader System?

OK, put simply, Waverley Media claim to have produced a system that involves taking advantage of the prices the night before the betting markets have really started to gain any momentum.

By this, I mean that it is common knowledge that bookmakers are well known for making many mistakes the night before when setting their prices for the following days events, and sometimes these prices can be huge, and sometimes they simply present an opportunity to make an easy profit.

Some people who already trade or place bets will know about these advantages, but often they are not easy to spot – unless you know where to look, which I personally do 😉

I have actually tried myself in the past to try and take advantage of these pricing ‘errors’, and they are very actually easy to find if you know where to look (which is why I personally wouldn’t pay for 2 Minute Trader). Experienced gamblers reading this will probably know where to look, but if not then I am not going to divulge it here – sorry.

A few vendors have created products based on this ‘reduction of odds information’ – I know of at least 4 marketers/vendors who sell a service doing exactly that, the information is actually freely available, it is nothing new, but Waverley (and other vendors) have created a service out of it by charging for the selections, but as I say, if you know where to look they are easy to find yourself.

 – This is where the 2 Minute Trader System claims to come in.

What Waverley Media have developed a selection service, courtesy of Waverley employee Lee Stuart Evans and that they claim has been working for a good while now, is a software product which will detect certain movements in the market, and these movements are based on the weight of money, together with the pricing information that the bookmakers have put up the night before – again, easy to find if you know where to look, but Waverley have automated it.

When you know where the information comes from, and I have known this for years, then you will appreciate that there is some money to be made, and people have done it for as long as early prices have been given by bookmakers.

Here is Tim Lowe and Lee Stuart Evans (the creator) explaining the system:

 

As stated above, I know where the information comes from, and I suspect many others will also, because there are certain websites out there that give early prices on a daily basis, so there is no real ‘prediction’ as such, what Waverley have done is created a software app that taps into this available information, and then tested if a profit can be made on an automated level.

So what the 2 Minute Trader System tries to ‘predict’, is that the horses it finds the night before will drop in price the day later; after you have already placed your bet, and thus can capitalise on the price dropping when trading the bets off through the Betfair exchange.

In theory it it does work, as stated a few times. There is no mystery to the dropping of prices on horses, but as this was an automated product being offered, it was worth testing.

The Traders Membership Area

I was granted access to the members area, and everything looked fairly straight forward, as you can see in the image below, and the message that greeted me gave a brief outline of what to expect, and the basics/mechanics of what the system offered:

2_minute_trader_log_in

The membership area contains the following content:

  • Home Introductions – Welcome, and explaining what to expect.
  • Instructional Manual – A written version on how to find the profits, and exactly how to execute.
  • Video Tutorials – Showing trading examples, and profit opportunities, what to do, etc.
  • Trading Calculator –  For members to calculate their profits.
  • Latest Content – This is where all the selections are posted for members to follow daily.

How The 2 Minute Trader System Works

In a nutshell, this is how it works:

  • The night before the racing starts, you will be alerted to up to 6 betting opportunities that the software has picked out as selections.
  • You will then be sent an alert email, or you can log into the website and see these selections.
  • The selections you are given are to be backed with the bookmakers recommended for the best price possible.
  • Then, then next day, hoping that the price has dropped, you will then be expected to cash out (play a lay bet) and make a profit, or take a loss, if the horse has drifted away from your original price (this can happen also).

The concept is, that the software will be finding selections that it ‘thinks’ has the best chance of dropping in price, based on in-built triggers, and filters, and therefore when you trade off the bet the next day, the price will have droppe hopefullyd, and you make the profit between the higher back bet price, and the new lower lay bet price – or if the price has gone against you, you will trade out for a loss.

The Trader System Calculator

Also in the members area is also a calculator that will calculate (of course) the exact stakes you need to place on every selection you are sent, and then you are left with no guesswork as to the profits you can make, and we all love a calculator, don’t we, it saves us from over stretching our grey matter, as much as we all pretend we never need one 😛

2_minute_calculator

You would simply enter into the calculator the odds and stake you make the night before, when you are sent the selections, and then the night after, when you are alerted, you would go to the Betfair exchange, see what the price is at that particular time, enter all the details in the relevant box, including commissions, etc. and you are then presented with what the profit will be.

An Example of a Trade

In fact, I will log into the website right now, and see what selections are there for tonight, and try to give you an example.

Here is one that is on the website from tonight as I type. The following is the kind of alert you will receive by the software:

trader_system_example_2

As you can see from the above image, the horse is given (Engage, at Goodwood 16:20, 21st September 2016) and the best odds being found are 4.5.

The details you are given are:

  • The Horse
  • The Race Course
  • The Time
  • The Date
  • The Best Odds Found (by the software)
  • Other odds found by other bookmakers (for more choice)

Now, once you have placed your bet with the bookmaker, you would wait until around 11am the next day and see if the price has dropped below your bookmaker price (for a profit), or if the price has drifted (for a loss).

The software, as mentioned, chooses horses that it’s ‘criteria‘ thinks will drop in price, and therefore can be layed off on the exchanges the next day for a profit – IF the price has dropped, not all of them do obviously, as this is trading.

Although, this can also happen earlier, and just to give you an example, that same horse, at the time of writing (I am writing this at about 1:45 am in the morning), is actually already lower on the exchanges with a lay price of 3.9, so a profit is already guaranteed on this selection, should I decide to lay that horse right now:

trader_system_example_1

So already the back bet price is 4.5, and the lay bet price has dropped to 3.9, and the difference between these prices is where you will have made a profit.

Where Do I Make The Profit?

As the software is choosing horses that it thinks will drop in price, then as the price drops this gives you the perfect opportunity to lay the bet off on Betfair for a guaranteed profit, no matter who wins the race.

If you don’t know what ‘laying the bet off’ means, then on Betfair ‘laying’ means betting against something winning.

Therefore, this is the format:

  • Back the horse with the bookmaker to win.
  • Lay the horse on Betfair to lose.

You then make your profit between the two price points.

Example of Guaranteed Profit on This Selection:

If for example, you had placed £50 on the above horse to win at the bookmaker when the alert came through at 4.5, and then layed the bet off with Betfair at 3.9, you would have made the following guaranteed profit:

trader_profit

4.5 backed with the bookmaker X £50 = £175 profit should the horse win.

3.9 layed off on the Betfair exchange X £58.44 = £169.48 lost should the horse win.

The difference is a guaranteed profit of £5.52 (£175 – minus £169.48 = £5.52)

This profit is then locked in no matter who wins the race.

The system itself looks, and is relatively simple (finding drifting horses is simple), but then of course you have the software that is generating the selections for you, leaving you to focus on putting on the bets, and then collecting the profits – hopefully.

And that is just one selection a few hours from when the selection was given; the night before the race starts, when the bulk of the profits are actually made the next day, and you are actually sent an alert as to when the best time is to lay the bet off for the best profit (this does not actually seem to be the case, I was never sent such an alert, but the author does email every morning with what to do).

As you can see from the above screenshot, this particular 2 Minute Trader System selection now has a guaranteed profit no matter who wins the race.

If the horse continues to drop in price, then more profit is made, which I will check tomorrow. But, if the horse drifted, and went up in price, then a loss would be made.

Updated the day after :-

As it turned out, the horse in the screenshot and it’s odds dropped as low as 3.39 before the race had even started (I am writing this the day after) meaning even more guaranteed profit was made on that particular selection.

You can see what the odds eventually changed to here, from the Betfair Timeform website page:

timeform_odds_1

Therefore by waiting until the next day, and cashing out when the software advises you to, you make even more profit than cashing out the night before, and this means the software got it right this time, that the odds would drop.

Actually, the horse came third, but it does not matter because the profit was made before the race had even started, and so by calculating the new lower odds, and waiting as the trader software advises, the profit calculator then looked like this:

trader_calculator_2

And as you can also see, the profit of £14 was made before the race began as the horse lost;  the profit would have made £13.99 had the horse won. And as stated there are up to 6 selections per day.

Trader System Selections

Another Example Of Trader Profits :-

After yesterday, I was just looking at the selections made tonight.

There are actually 6 selections tonight.

Again, here is an example of the selections made tonight, which are up on the website, and that will have been emailed to members:

22-september-trader-results

I must admit, that when I first started testing this new trader system I did trade out (cash out) a few times a few hours after the selections were emailed to me, just to ensure that all was working as it should, and because I was a little eager to make the first profits. Not all the prices will drop, and they actually advise you not to cash out the night before as they feel it upsets the process, with liquidity, etc.

I like to see profit in the Betfair account, hence initially trading out early; but I have since learned to wait until the next day because the profits definitely increase.

I am not quite sure what filters the software is looking for when choosing it’s selections (other than the reducing of odds), and how it predicts which horses will go down in price, and therefore make a profit, but it does seems to have a decent enough hit rate so far.

What if the price goes up, instead of down?

Now that, is an excellent question if I do say so myself, even though I asked it myself 😛

The 2 minute Trader System has a feature built into the methodology that even allows for if the price moves against you, and I don’t think it would be fair to put it here, but it is taught in the manuals, and the videos, and can make you a profit even when you don’t expect to, it is one of the key features of the system.

Now I must point out that this does NOT always happen, as this feature is to do with BOG offers, which is Best Odds Guarantee offered by bookmakers, and not every bookmaker offers this, it is seen more of a bonus than anything else if you get this.

Sure, not every race is going to provide a profit, because as good as the software seems to be, this is trading, but without doubt the wins come, and if you look at a section of my spreadsheet, as I have been logging results during my testing, you will see some of the price differences, and wins from some of my latest results:

trader-results

I must point out that results can and probably will differ to your own results, and losses can be made, as well as profits.

As you can see, my latest results, based on 8 actual trades (2 days worth of trades) have made a profit of £55.25 to £50 stakes, and £110.55 profit to £100 stakes, which I think is a decent return with 7 wins out of the last 8 trades, and as you can see from the stats below, there is an approximate 70.7% win rate.

How Much Money Can I Make?

I have asked Waverley Media to provide me with some statistics during my testing as this would help, and I am reliably informed that since April this year, the following has been achieved with the 2 Minute Trader System:

  • 70.7% win rate since April
  • Tested over 350+ trades
  • Testing started with only £150
  • Average profit per trade was over £5+ (Although I made a fair bit more than this during my testing!)

Although this does not mean that every trade made over £5, but when averaged out, it means that for every single trade placed that the software generated, an average profit was made of over £5 per trade.

During my own testing I can conclude that these statistics also seem to stack up.

So, for every bet, or trade that you place, you are looking at making around £5 profit, and there are on average around 6 selections given per night, which also seems to be in line with their suggested profits around up to £1,000 per month – all of which will be tax free – but this WILL depend on the effort you put in and the time, because this will take you longer than 2 minutes a day, that is for certain.

Trading Profit and Loss

When I test any trading, or gambling system I like to see what the market can withstand, so with the 2 Minute Trader System I was trading with £100 stakes, although you can start with less and build your way up. It is advised that you can start with as little as £150.

With a win rate of over 70%, you can quickly see why this could be a decent system, and the software seems to do a decent job to pick horses that are going to drop in price, which I think would be difficult to do manually on a consistent basis (although easily possible if you know where to look), even if you knew what the filters were, it would still be a lot of work to personally go through all the race cards every day and try to replicate what is being offered here, but it depends if you are willing to pay for a service that you could do manually, some people will, some won’t.

Turning Losses into Profits

As I mentioned earlier, there is also a unique feature of the trader system that is detailed in the manuals that explains how you can make a profit even when you lose. This can sometimes make a huge difference to the overall profit and loss for the day, and is a very nice surprise when it happens, although I will let the manuals explain what that is in more detail, but as mentioned above you are basically relying on bookmaker BOG’s to catch any losses from drifting prices, and then the bookmaker will match any price on the BSP (starting price).

It means though, that even on the losing trades, you can sometimes make an unexpected profit, and sometimes this unexpected profit is fairly substantial, albeit it does not always happen. When you read about it in the manual in more detail, you will probably be familiar with how BOG’s work, and know they can be an advantage, but when combined with how this particular trading system works, you will see that it can sometimes help with losses that can occur.

How Much Time Do I Need?

The advertising states 2 minutes, but I would say it takes more than that, and customers are saying the same.

The biggest moan I hear from people who are trying to make money from any kind of gambling product is that they ‘don’t want to be stuck at a pc screen all day’, or they ‘work during the day’, and this could be the answer to that, because the selections are given out between 6pm up to maybe 9pm at night, and you are told exactly where to go, and what prices to bet at.

Then, then next day you are also emailed with when to take the profit.

But there have already been many reports of customers stating that it is definitely taking them far longer than the 2 minutes advertised, as this is based on results the next day, and if the results do not go in your favour then you will need additional time and actions to try and limit losses. So just be aware, that if you have a day job, then chances are that you will need to take some actions during the day, and have the time out to have to check price movements.

Are There Any Downsides?

Possibly that it will take you longer than you think to realise the profits.

The following is taken from my results spreadsheet and these were the first 6 trades I placed when I started testing this new system:

trader_profit_and_loss

And as you can see, the very first 6 trades I did whilst testing this system produced a profit of £77.14, and this was over 2 days of selections, and there are more selections now, with up to 6 per day being sent, but again these were my results during the testing phase, and your results could be different.

As I have been testing the system there are only a few downsides that I have encountered, other than the time it takes to make the profit, and the actions needed when there are losses, which will occur at some stage, as with any trading system.

If I was being ultra critical, then it would be that sometimes when the alerts are sent about the selections, the pricing can sometimes change, so this will mean that if the system has a lot of members, and chances are it will already, that if you are all placing money on the same horses, then bookmaker algorithms will ensure that prices do not stay that high for long, so you will probably have to be quick to get your trades on, and this will mean acting as soon as you get the alerts.

Plus, if the results are not positive the next day, then you definitely need additional time to try and restrict any losses on horses that have drifted against what is required. The price CAN drift against you, and when this happens losses can be made. Obviously you will not profit on all races, so it really is dependent on what happens in the markets.

The Upsides to 2 Minute Trader?

I cannot help thinking about the problems many have with matched betting as I type this, and how the 2 Minute Trader System is trying to reduce the risk against matched betting type of offers.

Many people have now tried matched betting, and it has worked amazingly well; I tried it myself and made many thousands of pounds in the process, and know very many others that have done the same, and still recommend it,  but the problems are obvious for many who use it long term, and I will bullet point the problems here:

  • Spurious odds usually found – Bookmakers pick up on this immediately, and ban accounts.
  • Unusual bets placed – Bookmakers also pick up on this immediately, and ban accounts.
  • Betting patterns – These are also easily detected by bookmakers, and you guessed it, eventual banned accounts.

Whereas with the 2 Minute Trader System, I have found that most of the time the selections made are on favourites, particular favourites that fall within the certain software criteria, and the idea is, that as you are betting on favourites this should make you look like a mug punter, whether this works long term we will have to see.

With this system you are trying to look like a normal ‘punter’ not trying to game the system, which bookmakers like – a lot. Although it is still possible to have issues with bookmaker accounts, and nobody can guarantee otherwise.

Think about it, bookmakers are really just looking for punters who bet on favourites, and lose their money, and bookmakers make money no matter who wins a race, but if you look just like a typical gambler, without any methodology behind your bets, then chances are that they will be very happy with your account, and this will increase the longevity of your profits – which is more important than anything.

Although, bookmakers are getting much more sophisticated at finding patterns, and there really are no guarantees that your account won’t some up for a review at their regular meetings when deciding which accounts to ban, so just know that there are no guarantees there.

I would even go as far as saying that the 2 Minute Trader System is a possible safe-ish option with bookmakers, and definitely safer than matched betting, but as I say, bookmakers are no fools, and they know every trick in the book, but the suggestions put in place by the system creators do seem valid.

2 Minute Trader tries to make you look like a casual gambler, which is the situation you want to be in to protect your future profits.

Main Benefits To This Trader System

  • A seemingly simple system – It does seem easy to grasp but it does take longer than 2 minutes and this will depend on the actions you need to take if there are losses.
  • Low cost to join – Very cheap price to join compared to some of Tim Lowe’s products. (This has now been increased on the enhanced version which now costs £80 a month, or £960 a year, which many may now consider expensive for such a product)
  • Software finds all the trades, odds, and everything you need – Everything you need for the system to work is emailed to you.
  • Minutes to place the bets the night before – Self explanatory, although it does take longer than this to make the profits advertised, so you will need to see if you have the time to do this.
  • Minutes to cash out the bet the next day – You are also emailed when to cash out for the maximum profit – again, it does take longer than this depend on the results, but it definitely takes longer than ‘minutes a day’, and again, if you work, then you will probably have to find time during the day to check prices, and cash out of positions.
  • A little safer from bookmaker restrictions – Trying to look just like a casual gambler, and not a risky customer – although there have been reports of a few banned accounts.
  • Strike rate – 70%+ strike rate is excellent in any gambling, or trading system – This is based on early results from the publisher Waverley Media, longer term results may differ.
  • Profits seem reasonable – a few minutes a day for up to £1K?, this will depend on results and effort, but just be aware that as mentioned it does take far longer than minutes a day.

Conclusion on The 2 Minute Trader System

The product seems to work reasonably well.

I have not tested it long term, and long term results will be key to how this performs. Even though it is advertised as being the 2 Minute Trader, I would say that it will take far more than this amount of time to make the profits. Therefore, you will need to justify to yourself to see if the required amount of time it takes to make any profits is worthwhile compared to the cost.

At £36 (approx) per month it is not cheap (£432 a year), and the newly launched enhanced version – The 2 Minute Trader Plus is £80 per month (a whopping £960 a year), so it is on the high side for what is being offered – essentially free information that is widely available, but has been automated to create daily selections in this instance.

Will bookmaker accounts be banned? Only time will tell, there have been a few reports of a few accounts being banned, so it is certainly possible, but it does seem safer than matched betting.

The enhanced version at £80 a month does seem on the expensive side, and I suspect this will put off a lot of potential customers from purchasing, as it is a fair amount on a yearly basis.

I wouldn’t say that this is the answer to guaranteed profits, as I have not tested it long enough, and based on customer feedback it is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but providing you can justify the price, it may be worth a try if you can justify to fairly high price tag, and don’t know how to find the selections manually.

2 Minute Trader Update – 29th September 2016

I have had a lot of emails today about this new product, more than I expected, and many of them were asking exactly how much profit I actually made during my beta testing.

I thought I had tested for around 2 weeks, but on checking earlier, it was actually 17 days, and during the 17 days I made an overall profit of £672.41 after Betfair commissions. But that is my results, your results may be higher or lower. I have a bit of experience in this field, so that may have helped me with decision making.

The authors stated that over the period of their testing that an average profit of just over £5 per trade was made after all losing trades were taken into account, but on my testing this was a few quid more, but as I only tested for 17 days, this could average out, but it could also be less over a sustained period of time.

There has been a lot of interest in this already, and this ‘could’ be a good thing for the members of this, because consider this  – and this genuinely only occurred to me today:

I was thinking earlier about the main concept: Backing the night before and the price dropping the next day, and when you think logically about it, if many people are placing money on the horses the price HAS to drop (this turned out not to be the case looking at this longer term, as the amount of punters would be a drop in the ocean compared to all the liability entering the market), because it is becoming even more of a favourite, so the exchanges should definitely reflect this in their next day pricing!

2 Minute Trader Update: £533 Profits in First Week

Just to update you all, as I know a LOT of people are reading this page.

Important Note: The following was provided by the publishers, NOT my results – Your results could differ.

Here is a breakdown of the results from the first week selections given to members:

2 minute trader profit and loss

The first week results for the 2 Minute Trader since it launched on the 29th October is as follows:

  • Selections given: 27
  • Winning selections: 23
  • Losing selections: 3
  • Non Runners: 1
  • Longest losing run: 1
  • Longest winning run: 17
  • Largest win: £162
  • Largest loss: £2.83

Overall profit to £50 stakes in the first week,  if all selections were taken: £553.80

(Important Note: The following was provided by the publishers, NOT my results – Your results could differ)

2 Minute Trader Update 13th Oct £721.13 Profit

Figures released from the promoters regarding the results for the first 13 days worth of trades. I do expect this to average out lower over time, and more in line with what was advertised, and also based on my own testing.

The first 8 days of results resulted in an average profit of £20.51 per trade, and now after 13 days the average profits are hovering out at £18.02 at the moment, so a rich vein of form currently.

There have now been the following results:

  • Selections: 41 trades given
  • Winning Trades; 36
  • Losing Trades: 5

Overall profit to £50 stakes in  the first 13 days, if all selections were taken: £721.13

(Important Note:  advised by publishers, not my results)

2 Minute Trader Update 16th January 2017

Membership to 2 Minute Trader has now closed

I was alerted this morning by a reader to say that 2 Minute Trader has now been removed from new membership applications, and on checking it has (at the time of writing) indeed been closed.

2 Minute Trader Plus Launched 1st February 2017

Please note, that I am NOT on here recommending the 2 Minute Trader Plus version that was recently launched as I have not tested it; this review was for the original which has closed.

 

Looking For An Alternative To Using Bookmakers?

On my lastest review I tested a product called Betfair Scalper, which uses Betfair only, with fantastic results – No more banned bookmaker accounts:

Read My Review Click Here

 

 

Structured Data, Review
Title: The 2 Minute Trader Plus System Review
Reviewed by Ben Doyle on Sep 23
Rating: 3.0
Summary: Tim Lowe 2 Minute Trader System Launch
Description: Tim Lowe has launched a new product called ‘2 Minute Trader’, which is a system for taking advantage of high prices that bookmakers offer the night before the races start.

Using software, the system predicts and choses horses that are due to fall in price, and therefore offering the opportunity to take advantage of profitable price drops the next day when laying off the same horse on the betting exchanges.

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368 Comments

  • Pro1 says:

    ta for the email ben

    how much did you make with it on your test?

    nate

    • Ben says:

      Hi Nate,

      The promo for it states that you will make at least £5+ per trade, but I made more than that during the testing.

      As it says above my very first few trades made about £71, and the last ones about £110, but your results may be different.

      Ben

  • Stu says:

    Hi Ben is this the real deal and did it really not take long to do, looks good from the page I read?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Stu,

      It didn’t take long at all really actually placing the initial bets, you place the bets at night when they come through (I got them by email, but double checked the site to make sure), and then you lay them offer the next day.

      It does take more time than advertised, always does (far more than 2 if being honest) but it depends how many of the trades you take up and what happens the next day because if the prices move against you then you have to spend more time trying to lessen your losses.

      Ben

  • Dan says:

    Hi It’s looking good but my first reaction is the ban/restricted from bookmakers. It could be very risk if they see as matched betting then they will ban me. They are not stupid.

    For example, if I place regular £50 then they will raise the red flag if I do that lots of time.

    Or…

    Other example, if I keep regular using this system for a long time the bookmakers will ban me at the end.

    I was thinking the favourite bet with low odds could be something different rather than high odds.

    I am hoping you prove me wrong but thats something new to me. So please clarify me why you think bookmakers will not ban/restrict this type of bets?

    I look forward to hear from you soon,

    Regards,

    Dan

    • Ben says:

      Hi Dan,

      This is nothing to do with matched betting. Saying that, there are no guarantees that bookmakers won’t restrict, but the system does try to give advice on avoiding it as much as possible.

      Ben

      • Dan says:

        Thank you for your answer. I can see what you say that. One more question.

        I think I used the incorrect word ‘Matched Betting’ but what about the bookmakers think that would be arbitrage opportunity?

        Just last answer from you then I would go for it to link to buy this product! 🙂

        Many thanks,

        Dan

        PS: Good thing 30 days money back guaranteed to test it out.

        • Ben says:

          Hi again, Dan.

          If bookmakers were going to ban people for backing favourites, then they may as well stop being in business now, because that is exactly what most of their existing customers already do, and have been doing since betting began, but like I say there are no guarantees that they will not find the loopholes.

          Ben

  • james says:

    Ben this looks exactly the same as mike cruickshanks bookie blowout product?

  • Dave says:

    Hi Ben, I have an issue with placing horse bets the night before as I’m pretty sure this is generally a no-no amongst bookies and will flag you for doing something not quite right. When I’ve placed bets the night before which has been very occasional, I’m sweating waiting for a restriction email the following day…surely this will flag up on the bookies radar sooner rather than later as you’re placing multiple bets every month and will be usually generally the same bookmakers. So.as good as this system.akumds and it does sound good, the worry will be there for everyone I’m sure. Couldn’t we just place the bets on Betfair instead as the odds are usually higher then lay/cash out the following day? It’s the same principal isn’t it?

  • Dan says:

    That it. I have no more further questions. I will consider to buy this tonight or tomorrow.

    Also I received the email from Tim Low’s PA…and they seem gave me their good points…

    Hi Dan
     
    We’ve had a few questions about just using a laptop and not your mobile phone and there are a number of reasons for using a smartphone
     
    1.       It is way easier to navigate the bookie sites via a smartphone and place bets quickly
    2.       There is minimal impact to your evening with a smartphone in your pocket waiting for trades rather than being glued to a PC screen for 3 hours per night
     
     
    There is also a bigger picture to consider which we go into some detail on in the manual. Bookmakers take an unfair and dim view of traders making a profit from horseracing.  It annoys them that you are successfully removing money day after day from the market . They like ‘mug punters’ who bet randomly and lose most of the time.  If they suspect a user of theirs is a trader or sharp gambler they can limit or even close your account.
     
    Bookmakers install illegal software on your PC when you browse their sites. They use the excuse that they are trying to ‘know your customer’ when opening an account and that it legitimate to snoop around without asking you.  They do not ask permission. This software is called ie snare and has been featured heavily online , on a recent BBC Radio 4 documentary and in the newspapers. The result of this ‘snooping’ software is they are looking for gamblers or traders with multiple bookmaker accounts on the same computer and more importantly someone with a Betfair account who may be a trader.  Cookies without permission were outlawed a few years back , the bookmakers simply ignored it.  Scottish MP Alex Salmond is looking to launch an enquiry into these unfair practices. Remember we are doing nothing wrong , nothing illegal at all and yet we are forced to be as covert as possible to avoid the nefarious actions of the greedy bookmakers.
     
    Much of the finesse of the 2 minute Trader is the rules we give you on how to stay totally under this bookmaker radar and camouflage yourself as a ‘mug punter’    We have spent a long time testing this with huge success. If you use a laptop to access all your bookmaker sites you will need to be very vigilant for illegally installed snooping programmes from bookmakers , and you run a higher than normal risk of having one, some or eventually all of your bookmaker sites limited or closed.  
     
    We want users to enjoy this system and its profits for years and years rather than months and months and so we have found that using a smartphone means bookmakers cannot spy on your activity as they cannot install this ie snare software.  You get the benefit of the convenience of placing bets on the move hassle free and quickly without impacting your evening AND you enjoy unlimited bookmaker accounts for years to come.
     
    There are also tips in the online manual to help you to avoid the pitfalls.  Hope this answers your question. Please let us know if you require further advice.
     
    Regards
    Marion
    Admin team

  • Lee says:

    Hi Ben,

    Just regarding bookmaker restrictions, if you are continually taking value (taking odds higher than the odds the horse goes off at, for those who are unfamiliar with the term), surely the bookmakers will close your account down eventually?

    They don’t just search for value seeking winners, they search for value seeking losing bets to.

    Can you therefore avoid using bookmakers and back the horses on the exchange when the bets come in?

    Many thanks fella and another great review 🙂

    Lee

    • Ben says:

      Hi Lee,

      As mentioned in my last post (below) it has not been a problem so far, but nobody can guarantee it won’t happen.

      Ben

  • MT says:

    Hi Ben,

    Whats the reason we cant just back on the exchange? Why do we need the bookmakers?

    • Ben says:

      Hi MT,

      Good question that, and when you think about it there is no real reason, because the price is going down anyway, right?

      That is not how I tested it though, but I think just using the exchanges could have a lot of validity if the liquidity is there the night before.

      Ben

    • Ben says:

      Hi Miles,

      They do say that somebody ‘trying’ to copy what you do is the best form of flattery.

      I see it differently, I see it as somebody with no ideas, and failed previous ideas looking for an easy ride.

      Ten a penny.

      Ben

  • james says:

    the problem with using the exchanges for the back bet the night before the race, is liquidity, even on the favourite

  • Ben says:

    You say “So I have reviewed it as I have found it, and in 17 days of testing that I personally did I made a total profit of £672.41 after Betfair commissions.”

    How much stake you put in so far?

    Thanks J

    • Ben says:

      Hi Ben (Decent name).

      How much stake? I started immediately with £100 stakes at the bookies as I like to test products properly, and I was never down into a negative at any stage, as obviously everything is returned to you after every bet, as you will know, and the strike rate definitely helps this, so cash flow was fine, and always positive, which means any bank size can be used.

      The product creator himself started with £150 and built up, so I would advise 10% of any bank (even more possibly with such a good strike rate – at least in my testing, but always better to be disciplined, and build rather than go ‘all in’).

      Ben

      • Ben says:

        £100 stake each bet or total £100 a day? Please clarify…

        Sorry to ask you too many questions but thank you! 🙂

        • Ben says:

          Hi again, Ben.

          I would advise, and the authors advise that you use 10% of your bank, so it is not how much I made that counts, it is what you can comfortably afford to use as ‘your’ betting bank.

          So if you have £150 fine, use 10% as your stake. If you have £500, the same 10%, etc.

          Ben

  • Frank Lomax says:

    The main danger with this kind of system is the possibility of losing your bookmaker accounts. If a selection wins then the bookmaker is alerted to the winning odds discrepancy and will suspect an ‘arbitrage’ system being used. If it happens too often then your bookmaker account will be restricted or closed.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Frank,

      As already stated, this has not been a problem in the 4 months it was trialled say the promotors, but that is not the say it cannot happen.

      Ben

    • Ross says:

      Just wanted to add my reply to Franks comment, if you are worried about bookie accounts being restricted you don’t have to place bets with the same a bookie for each bet, I find its always best rotate which bookie you use especially if you are a profit maximixer member

  • Ben says:

    On your last comment about £100 stake but you know many bookmakers would be comfortable £50 per stake rather than £100?

    Do you think they will accept £100 per stake like that?

    Many thanks,

    Ben

    • Ben says:

      Hi Ben,

      I don’t think, I know, as that is what I did, but there is nothing to stop you placing even more by splitting it amongst a few bookmakers, as the selections give you a list of them and the odds.

      I really don’t see where your questioning is going, just use 10% of your bank as they advise.

      Ben

  • yomitude says:

    Hi, Ben.
    Please which football betting system is currently working. Thanks

    • Ben says:

      Hi Yomitude,

      Your question has no bearing on this thread, so I am not sure what you are asking.

      Ben

  • Mike says:

    Far to many comments about losing bookmaker accounts etc. This is going to happen eventually anyway.
    Make hay whilst the sun shines. Backing favourites is the best way of looking like a mug punter and keeping them going a bit longer.

  • peter says:

    Hi Ben,

    Don´t you think that the prize and odds of the horses will take a severe beat when 1000 people sign up with this membership service?

    1000 people logging in and putting a £50 bet or a £100 bet at the bookies and most of the people also having the same bookies and then the next day laying the same horse at Betfair to my experience just have to have a severe affect on the market! Anything else would be totally unheard of in my opinion!

    What is your comment to this?

    Surely the seller of this system must have thought about this? Or could they have not for seen this?

    Thanks!

    • Ben says:

      Hi Peter,

      I think it is possible, we will have to wait and see what happens when more people join and how it affects the prices.

      Ben

  • Dave says:

    Hi Ben, this sounds like a great idea on paper but I have reservations about it working long term. I have always been led to believe that betting the night before races is a no-no as this will ultimately flag your account and if you’re placing hundreds of bets every month, granted across various bookies then they will shut you down sooner rather than later. I know this has been tested for 4 months but it doesn’t state if only one set of accounts were used or if different people were trying it to ‘scatter’ bets more thinly. A better idea surely is what has already been mentioned, placing back bets on the exchange as generally the odds are higher and although liquidity isn’t always there, even scalping £10-20 rather than the suggested £50 would make more sense in the long run, no worries of account closures?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Dave,

      The promotors say they tested it over a few months before going live and that no bookie accounts were closed, but as I have said previously there are no guarantees on that, so it becomes a question of how much you value your accounts compared to making some quick money.

      Ben

  • jason says:

    Concerns I would have are bookies will restrict your stakes if you are winning often and if doing this all the time you are gonna have a lot of winners.
    Also with that brings your exchange getting emptied fairly regularly having to withdraw from the bookies,being held up as then you don’t have enough in exchange to cover liabilities,you would need a big bank to start especially if you wanted to start and do a few trades a day.

    • Tim Lowe says:

      Hi Jason

      I’m, sorry but that’s not quite right, in fact ‘winning’ can happen in either place, bookie or exchange, as the outcome of the race is not important to you winning.

      What has to happen for you to ‘win’ is for the price to move down so you can lay at Betfair what you previously backed at the bookie.

      If a horse is priced at 3/1 (decimal odds 4.0) then it is considered likely to win a race one time in 4, at 2/1 win one time in 3, at evens win one time in 2 and so on.

      The reason I am saying this is because if you backed all horses at say 2/1 you would still only, on average, win at the bookies one time in 3 and your lay bet at the exchange would win the other 2 times in 3.

      However, so long as the price moved down, all three would be winning trades for you.

      Lee uses Paypal to move money around and as you will have seen in the sales video it takes seconds. He genuinely had a £110 bank which he grew with no further topping up.

      We did not ‘scatter’ the bets around as suggested by Dave, each tester used their own accounts, nothing more than that.

      The money comes into the exchange much later so I don’t think you will find enough liquidity on Betfair the night before which is why we use the bookies to back.

      I cannot stress enough how important it is to follow the exact instructions precisely. If you do then I do not believe you will get gubbed.

      The single most important tool the bookies have to decide your fate is the snooping software iesnare which does NOT run on mobile phones which is one big reason we say use a phone not a computer to place bets.

      People have allsorts of ideas of how they were chosen to have their accounts closed and some are right but many are not. It’s about what they do when the they realise you have multiple accounts with lots of bookies and, worse still, Betfair as well.

      They find this out using iesnare cookies on your computer. Simple as that. If you just once log on to a bookie site you have an account with then iesnare logs it and waits for the next one and so on. Eventually they know all about your accounts!!!

      You can remove iesnare (be wary though it comes back) but using a smartphone is the best solution.

      I hope this helps

      Tim Lowe

  • Augustine says:

    Ben, I’ll be excited with this system only if I am not limited based on my location. The pointer to this is that it is not based on the Bonuses which are usually used to restrict one’s location allowing specifically the British only. I’ve checked to see countries listed in their purchase enabled list and I see a wide range including Africa, so I am excited for now, however you may know better and should recommend clearly whether it’s location restrictive. I await your reply so that I decide on taking it on. I also hope it will last long in the performance being advertized.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Augustine,

      You will need to ensure that you can use Betfair in your country, and that you have access to UK bookmakers, so you may wish to check that.

      And you are correct, this product does not involve bonuses, or matched betting.

      Ben

  • salah says:

    can i use just one bookmaker or i have to use many ?
    and let’s say i have 5000£ in my bank can i use 10% as my stake (500£).

    • Ben says:

      Hi Salah,

      You will need more than one account to maximise the profits, although the one account you do have will probably be on the ‘selections list’ you are sent with the odds supplied.

      Regarding your £500 stake, sure, you may get away with it once or twice, but if you want longevity when using bookmakers, then I seriously advise that you adhere to the manual, and it’s instructions on avoiding issues with bookies, and staying under the radar as much as you can, that’s the trick to trying to keep your accounts live and kicking.

      Ben

  • Jono says:

    Ben,

    How am I so stupid to inputted Ben in the name box? (If you see ben in the previous comment!) Actually, Am Jono or Dan (Middle name). Lol!

    Anyway, am already in today. Now I am testing with the system. I got two tips to place the bets at the bookmakers £25 each. So I can place the bets on my mobile or tablet (whatever you like) and then later I saw massive odds drop in betfair already but I will wait until 11am tomorrow.

    Am sure I will easily lock in profit tomorrow (Finger cross!)

    Remember this is only start and I will keep update to see how I getting on with it.

    Cheers, J

    • Ben says:

      Hi Jono,

      That’s OK, just remember to put your stake in the pink box, and not the blue box when you cash out those bets.

      Ben

  • charlotte says:

    I would always prefer to use the exchanges instead of Bookies. It keeps everything financially tidy.
    Is it essential to use
    Bookies to make this work?

  • Interested says:

    Hi I m quite interested in this but I don t have a smart phone & was worried by the illegal monitoring cookies you mentioned which can track pcs.

    My question is should I be overly worried about using a desktop or would a tablet running android for example also stop the cookies running as a smart phone would do and therefore be a viable alternative?

    • Interested says:

      Hi Ben,

      thanks for response regarding using ghostery for pc users who do not wish to be tracked.

      If anyone is inerested & using firefox as a browser they get it by clicking on tools and then add ons & then doing a search for it. I did this & installed it in a matter of momments.

      So now thats given me peace of mind I intend to get this product but will have to wait until next week which leads me to one question which I hope you may be able to help with…

      If I were to purchase this on say the 14th Oct would my monthly subscription run until the 14th of the next month or does it run via calender months so I d have to make the next payment at the beginning of November.

      Thanks again 🙂

      • Ben says:

        Hi,

        I would have thought that if you purchase on the 14th then the next payment should be the 14th the next month, that has always been the case when I have purchased subscriptions in the past.

        Exactly one month later, otherwise you would be getting more than a months worth.

        Ben

  • Nick says:

    Another good review Ben. I’ve been thinking about this and seen some of the other comments saying if it’s possible to us betfair to place the back and lay. I think it would be on the downside you would pay commission on the backing of it won where as with the bookies you wouldn’t. Now one massive plus is that of your using just betfair then they have a cashout button that means you wouldn’t need money to lay the horse the next day as betfair balances it out so you don’t need a massive bankroll to get the bigger stakes. (This would well out way betfair’s commission on your backing wins!!)

    I might be wrong on both of these but if anyone could clarify or tell me if I’m right or not it would be much appricated

    • Ben says:

      Hi Nick,

      In fact when I started I thought exactly the same thing, and did use Betfair only for a few trades, and it did work fine.

      The only issue is the liquidity is low on the night time for the back bets, but it is not out of the question should you get matched and if the odds are similar to the bookie.

      Ben

  • peter says:

    Hi Ben,

    Before I decide to sign up I was just wondering the following:

    if you set up a starting betting bank at the bookies with £500 what kind of betting bank would be a reasonable one to start with at Betfair? 10 times bigger?

    Like a £5000 starting betting bank at Betfair since you are laying at Betfair and of course would need a much larger starting betting bank.

    If I understand the system correctly you would lay anywhere from odds 2.00-6.00 mostly?

    Thanks!
    What is your opinion in this matter?

    Thanks!

    • Ben says:

      Hi Peter,

      You need nowhere near that amount, and with Betfair products I always recommend to set any bank and work to percentages of that and build up using compounding.

      The author started with £150 (although Tim says is was £110) so not sure where I read it, but a very small amount, and built up to £4,000 in 4 months.

      So yes I would decide on what you can comfortably afford and work the percentages around that, instead of thinking what you ‘could’ need.

      But yes, the odds do seem to be between around 2-5.0, but remember you are trading out at a lower price. For example last night there was a 5.0 selection on price to be backed, and around an hour ago the odds on the lay side were 3.8 (and just checking the price now, it is at 3.75), so your liability is obviously much lower than the 5’s.

      Ben

  • Northy says:

    hi,

    i joined this when it launched and started first bets last ngiht and have just cashed out my first bets for £13.19 profit.

    happy that it is working so far!!

    • Ben says:

      Hi Northy,

      Also, the last race you should really have left it a little later to cash out as the race is not until 17:40, and you could have made even more profit, but I can understand you wanting to see the money after just joining to try and get back money on yuor investment, that is only natural.

      Ben

      • Sticker says:

        Hi Ben

        One problem with these bets is the reduction factor with non runners if a 1st or second favourite drops out it can be pretty catasrophic for a large bet.

        Is it a case that you just have to suck it and see and absorb the loss in your overall winnings as part of the price to pay?

        Cheers

    • Raymond says:

      Hi Northy,

      good to read you made this much profit. What was your stake?

      I actually had a losing one today. As the price drifted and had to close out the trade with a lose.

      Regards,
      Raymond

      • Raymond says:

        Hi Ben,maybe my reply was not very clear. There was indeed an overall profit over the day yesterday. I had 1 loss and 1 win as all others.I see potential in the system for long term…

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Ben,

    I just checked, he started with £110. I think he says on the video that you might need to start with £150 as a round number but in fact he did it with less. Clearly the more you start with the easier it is but £150 is a sensible place to start.

    Tim Lowe

  • Robin says:

    Ben,

    I alright in saying yes this method will work as you know… but there are let’s say 6 selections. People with a small bank will only be able to trade 1 maybe 2 of these, as people won’t be able to cover the lay side. Or if they do chose all 6 then the stakes will be low – profIt will be low.

    So the £500-£1000 per month probably isn’t realistic to begin with?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Robin,

      This is where, again, I would say to only use as your bank what you can afford and build your stakes around that.

      Build it up slowly if you have a smaller bank.

      Ben

  • Garry says:

    Hi all,

    Looks like a good system on paper tone untrained eye but anyone with experience in trading can see the issues with thus ‘product’

    Allow me to explain:

    Firstly, when placing any bet with a bookmaker your bets are monitored. If you’re beating the SP on a regulars basis you’re restricted pretty fast and there is nothing you can do about it. Yes, you may lose a lot of initial bets into the exchange thus making you look like you’re losing, however after a few winning bets the bookmaker will see you’re beating the SP and restict your accounts. There is NOTHING you can do about this.

    Secondly, as people have already pointed out: why not lay on the exchange? This is purely to so with liquidity, there simply isn’t enough the night before for this ‘ product’ to work. Nobody would be able to back a bet because there is no money on the exchange. Believe me if bookmakers know they are losing money the night before they will soon notice.

    Finally, all this system is about is the favourites price coming in. Yes they are heavily backed and this is why the price comes in to balance the bookmakers books – but you don’t even need these ‘tips or selections’ from this system. There is one big website out there that tells you what are drifters and steamers the day before so you can easily capitalise.

    All this system is doing is asking for is 30 quid for your bookmakers accounts

  • Vladimir says:

    Hello. One year ago I was using each way sniper, and it was making nice profits, but at the end most of bookies was rejecting my bets. I can test it easily if they are still refusing my bets, but I am wondering why for this system we don’t use Betfair sportsbook day before instead of bookies? I never heard before that Betfair is closing accounts…? Or maybe they do, I am not sure about it…

    • Ben says:

      Hi Vladimir,

      I reviewed, and recommended the software you are talking about (still do), and it works fantastically well for many people.

      Regarding your question about Sportsbook, it is a good question. I didn’t try Sportsbook when I tested this, but it is portrayed as just being a bookmaker, and should be worth a try if you decide to go down that route, although be aware that it is not mentioned as an option in the manual, not that I remember anyway.

      Ben

  • Ben says:

    Hi Jono,

    No problem, I use Ghostery myself, as do many traders, and it is designed specifically to stop uninvited software apps placing stuff on your pc without your permission.

    It is actually amazing what it stops, and makes you realise just how often websites try to abuse their visitors by trying to add cookies, and unwanted software, etc.

    Ben

  • Keith says:

    I joined around three days ago and have been betting £5 bets. So far, out of 5 bets, 4 have won. The losing bet was traded out at a small loss.

    So, so far – excellent results. I have also thrown in some ‘mug punter’ bets to cover my tracks. These I have layed in the exchange, usually for a small profit or break even.

    It certainly lives up to Tim Lowe’s promise so far.

  • Scooter says:

    So what will happen when you have 100’s of members all trying to lay the same horse at the same time the next day? There will simply not be enough liquidity in the market and many will miss out on the lower price and end up laying at a higher price, making little money or a loss. An average weekday horse race will never have enough liquidity to support 100’s of people all piling in and laying at the same time without adversely affecting the price.

    Waverley are probably going to say they are capping the membership but they are never going to cap it at a level low enough that every member will be able to lay at the optimum low price. They capped the membership to a football program but by the time they did there were so many onboard that when the email came out to say cash out of the recommended trades the lay price would actually jump back up as everyone would be laying at once and trades that were originally making 9-10% now make 3-4%.

  • Neil Jones says:

    Hey Ben,

    It’s Neil, this looks a great little earner. Anything with Tim Lowe involved is always good. I am going sign up today and give it a blast!

  • Andy says:

    I’m wondering if this might complement “matched betting”, and i don’t just mean by increasing profits.

    Although I haven’t subscribed to a matched betting service (yet), I THINK they give you recommended bets to use the free bets on – and to avoid being gubbed, they advise you to place a number of “mug punter” bets (ie generally the favourite. But wouldn’t the 2-minute trader bets look like mug punter bets and deflect bookies’ suspicions a bit?

    Assume the selections given will start dropping very quickly once given out, making it difficult for latecomers to back at a profitable price that evening?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Andy,

      I think you are right, and I thought exactly the same, I just didn’t mention it as to not confuse what was being offered regarding matched betting.

      Ben

    • Scott says:

      “Assume the selections given will start dropping very quickly once given out, making it difficult for latecomers to back at a profitable price that evening?”

      I would expect this too, plus the lay price will rise very quickly the next day when there are a large number of people all laying off the same horse, leaving an unprofitable trade for most members.

      (I did do a longer post explaining all this but it has not been approved!)

      • Scott says:

        Fair enough Ben if there are hundreds of users already and the margins are still there then I stand corrected. All I know from previous experience based on fact not assumptions was that by they time they capped membership for another program the level of profit on recommended trades dropped due to the amount of people all cashing at once. Time will tell I guess.

        • Ben says:

          Hi Scott,

          See, this is one of the sole reasons I try to avoid that kind of conversation getting onto threads, and I have allowed that one for a reason.

          I know the product you are referring to, as I reviewed it also as you may know, but I also used it myself, and I also know that another member who has also posted on ‘this’ thread is making £1,000+ a week with that product.

          And here is where my mentality is on this. Assuming the chap who is making £1k a week, who just went off and did his thing, followed the rules, and made his money had read the negativity that many seem to enjoy.

          Do you think it may have planted a seed that it could not work? had he bought into all the collective griping? I think you know it could.

          I myself have tried very many products and services that others have moaned about, even showing my Betfair screenshots of excellent profits, and still negativity came.

          So the way I see it, and I use the same philosophy on a daily basis, is to read what it going to help, and advance progression.

          If you know the other forum I am referring to, then you will know just what a cesspit of negativity it has become, with all and sundry claiming nothing works, and the world is about to cave in every time a new product launches.

          And a member of that same forum claimed the chap who is making £1K a week from the ‘other product’ was fake, even though I checked and confirmed with Waverley Media that he was indeed a customer.

          This is the last of this type of post from anybody that will go on this thread.

          People are making money, the product IS working, and has been tested by many, and until that changes the stance will stay the same, for a very good reason, as explained.

          If people then decide not to invest in it, that is fine, people who like to ‘do’ in life, always will, and will hopefully do so with my help, and without negative seeds being planted before they have even started.

          And if they can do that, and make a few quid, then I believe my review has helped, and hopefully helps you too 🙂

          Ben

        • gav81 says:

          well said Ben

  • Barry says:

    I would like to purchase T2MT but don’t have a credit card.
    I have a debit card and Pay Pal but this is not an option . Can you advise

    Regards

    Barry

    • Ben says:

      Hi Barry,

      Unfortunately PayPal is not an option currently, although they do offer a card (PayPal debit card that is) so maybe that is an option for you to look at.

      Ben

  • Jane says:

    Hi
    what about the risk of non runners between placing the back bet at night and the lay bet next day?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Jane,

      Non runners are refunded, there was one today.

      If you mean how does it affect profits if it wasn’t your horse that was the non runner, but another horse, then some boomakers don’t even discount that way, but even if they did it is only a percentage of profit.

      Again, this happened yesterday, and a deduction factor was made for a non runner, and a profit was still made overall.

      Ben

      • Jane says:

        Yes I was thinking if a non runner in the race that wasn’t the horse I was on. I thought you had to do a re calculation if a non runner as unless it wins you lose out and the loss could be big depending on the odds?

        • Ben says:

          Hi Jane,

          There is a section in the manual that deals with that, and video explanations that also explain how to deal with it. It is not a problem, and also wasn’t a problem during the testing.

          Ben

  • Doug says:

    “Assume the selections given will start dropping very quickly once given out, making it difficult for latecomers to back at a profitable price that evening?”

    Correct, and the lay prices will rise very quickly when loads of people are all trying to lay off the next day creating unprofitable trades for most members.

  • Jono says:

    Ben…You are correct about the refund today! I did locked the profit before it was happened as I was doing that in Smarkets which it is potentially big profits than betfair because of 2% commission but Betfair is still better in liquidity. So I can either to check both of these websites.

    Tonight it was four of tips came out and the odds have reduced in Betfair. 🙂

    • Ben says:

      Hi Jono,

      Well done, and yes non runners always get refunded.

      What you say about Smarkets is also interesting, and something I have also thought about.

      Ben

  • gav81 says:

    hi Ben, I applaud the way your run your website and it is one of the first websites i check daily to see if anything new has come out, mainly as your reviews are great and some of the best online by a proverbial so keep it up mate, the other website talked about earlier has gone to the dogs mate due to trolling so good on you fella for keeping this site helpful to all, i joined this new system earlier tonight and so far so good.

  • Giovanni says:

    Hi Ben,

    Just wondering what you did the today trades?

    Have you laid any?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Giovanni,

      Any trades from the night before are not usually cashed out until an hour or so before the race to get the best possible outcome.

      The reason for that is that much of the liquidity enters the market in that final hour, so profits can increase due to the weight of money, giving more advantage.

      Ben

  • Ben says:

    Hi All,

    UPDATE: There has been a lot of interest in this product, and as many of you already know I test and review many products, therefore, my job is done on this one, and I will not have up to date results other than what has been posted above.

    I also won’t always have the time to answer all questions, but of course I will try my best, time permitting.

    Thank you.

    Ben

  • FYI says:

    Good review Ben, as we have come to expect from you.

    It is an interesting concept in principle. I am tempted to see what the results would be on the exchanges only.

    • Ben says:

      Hi,

      It is not for the exchanges only, as bookmakers are used the night before, that is how it work.

      Ben

  • Jay Stone says:

    how are peeps doing with this then, worth a go?

  • neil says:

    Hi ben. Just an update buddy. I am in profit. Been on it 4 days. Brilliant system. Get on it peeps ?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Neil,

      Thanks for letting us know.

      From what I can gather it has been a very good week for the system.

      Ben

  • pee says:

    how can i buy the 2minute trading product its telling me some spam issues,, i dont get it

    • Ben says:

      Hi Pee,

      No idea what you are talking about, click the link at the top of page which is working fine.

      Ben

      • pee says:

        Hi Ben,
        I really appreciate your prompt reply, I am actually referring to the payment method, I have a debit master card issued by my local bank, and after putting in all my details it tells me ,did not process request due to spam sources, tried over and over it says the same thing, is this a click bank product?

        • Ben says:

          Hi Pee,

          No it is not a Clickbank product.

          I would contact your card provider as it sounds like the issue is on their side.

          Ben

  • Sam says:

    Hi isn’t this the same as bookie blowout that have just been sent out in an email from MC

    • Ben says:

      Hi Sam,

      This question has already been answered once in the comments, it is a different product.

      Ben

  • Ben says:

    Hi everyone,

    The review has been updated to reflect the first week results since launch, but please note, that they are not my results, they were provided by the promotor.

    Ben

  • David says:

    Great results so far for me too! Although, I can only assume you didn’y lay Strong Force on 6 October as it went off at 3.25, a £50 stake would have returned £162.50.

    I’ve also had my stakes limited at Ladbrokes after 4 days of £50 stakes. 6 bets, 4 winners, including Really Special on 6 October which drifted from 3.5 to 6 and paid out at 6.5 with the Guaranteed Best Odds Plus.

    I’ve made over £350 since Monday with this system but unfortunately can’t see it lasting if other bookies decide to restrict me.

    • Ben says:

      Hi David,

      Were you using your smart phone for all the trades?

      Ben

    • John says:

      Hi David,

      Would it have been possible to place the back bets on the exchange instead of the bookies so as to better preserve your accounts for the long run? And do you mind posting how much the odds drifted in each selection? Thank you.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hi David, great results. I’m really pleased. Booky restrictions are a pain but can usually be avoided. The manual has a set of rules which should make this possible if carefully followed but can I suggest calling Lee in the office on Monday and talking it through as he should be able to help you avoid any other issues like this. We’ve put hundreds of biggish bests on over many months and avoided gubbing etc so worth calling 🙂 Tim Lowe

    • David says:

      Thanks for the offer of a phone call, Tim, much appreciated!

      I’ll give Lee a call on Monday as suggested!

  • leke says:

    hi Tim,
    I really want to try this system but the main issue I’m facing is the payment page ie Waverley Media ltd wouldn’t process my payment. I’ve a neteller and skrill account as alternative I hope u could send me a private message on what to do thanks

    • Ben says:

      Hi Leke,

      Based on the email you sent to me your problem stems from your location being Nigeria.

      I don’t think you can use Betfair there anyway, or open the bookmaker accounts needed, so you might want to check.

      Ben

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hi Leke, we should be able to find a way of sorting this. If you call the office on Monday and speak to Stephanie (01252 784390) she will work something out. Tim

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Ahhhhh. ..I didn’t realise that! Nigeria would definitely be an issue for bookies and Betfair. Sorry. tim

  • Chorley1967 says:

    Hi, how many bookie accounts would I need to start this.

    • Ben says:

      Hi,

      I would say the main UK ones, maybe 5/6 as then chances are much higher that the daily selections contain those main bookmakers as an option for the odds given.

      Ben

  • leke says:

    hi Tim
    I guess you are wrong on that because I own a betfair account (major difference been 6.5% commission) and so do most Nigerians I know and certainly most UK bookies accept Nigeria except for a few like coral and paddypower I’ve opened accounts with so many I think 17 and counting including offshore bookies like meridianbet and offsidebet… the problem here seems to be from the payment page from Waverley media Ltd I hope u could work out a solution for foxe aboard that’s extra stream of income 4 U 🙂

    • Ben says:

      Hi Leke,

      Well you have certainly taught me something there, but the issue with the credit card will be the same, probably a security measure here in the UK.

      Probably best to do as Tim advised earlier and phone their office.

      Ben

  • Paul says:

    Hi Ben

    Nice to see that this has started like a steam train. I have to say I am very tempted. However I just have a query. Can you please explain how, over 23 bets it has made over £550 when it is stated by you that the author claims an average of £5 per winning trade and you just slightly more. Was he using £300 stakes? I just don’t get how those profits are reached based on your figures
    I am very interested in starting but at those sort of stakes they will flag up to the bookie straight away

    • Ben says:

      Hi Paul,

      If you look at the spreadsheet on the update I put on today you can clearly see that the stakes were £50 with the bookmaker, and no more.

      Yes, the author did claim overall profits of just over £5 per trade, but that was averaged out of 4 months; every week will be different, every day will be different, as last week has proven.

      As to how that much profit was made, that will depend on results, and if there are any losses, etc. The results really need to be taken over a much wider period of time, and to account for if there are any lost accounts on the bookmaker side as well.

      Ben

  • Paul says:

    Thanks for the swift reply Ben. Gonna get onboard on Monday. Just need it to earn me on average between £20- £30 daily and I will be a happy bunny. Good luck to all that have gone before me and taken the plunge

  • keisha says:

    really want to sign up for this, i’m just going to jump in and test it.

  • Lewis says:

    Hi Ben,
    I’m really interested and would like to do this on a smartphone. Would a basic cheep and cheerful phone be man enough for this or would I need to upgrade to a faster mobile wth more storage space for bookie app downloads.
    Thank you.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Lewis,

      Any phone that can get an internet browser will do, which is most of them, they can be picked up for peanuts these days.

      Ben

  • charlotte says:

    I note several comments re bookies
    keeping a trace of betting records
    perhaps using a computer/tablet.
    would that also be the case if
    phoning through the trades?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Charlotte,

      The selections are given between 6-9pm so the bookmakers are closed for phoning, so it has to be online, ideally with a smart phone.

      There is a section of the manual explaining how to do this.

      Ben

  • Mal says:

    Ben
    Are you guided to the 5/6 Bookies you say is the number required or is that irrelevant and any 5/6 will be ok?

    I can use those I have and just add Betfair as it appears to certainly be one.

    Great review site I mention in passing.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Mal,

      Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it.

      Yes, as soon as you join you can check all the previous selections which also give you the bulk of the bookmaker accounts that are used.

      The selections give all of them, more or less, but it would be entirely up to yourself which ones you open, although the more you open the more opportunity I think, because they do compete with each other on odds/prices, thereby giving you more scope to pick and choose, and share amongst bookmakers.

      Ben

      • Mal says:

        Thanks for prompt reply. The downside of more accounts I suppose is the additional capital to fund them but offset by choice & the obtaining of improved margins periodically…….plus time available also. I’ve just talked myself into keeping it simple I think !! ?

  • robin says:

    Hi Ben,

    I have joined this system pretty much at the start.

    Just received a letter form Tim today stating, the first members to join have so far made £274 profits of the time of writing that letter.

    Though last week the profits were in the realms of £550?

    Do you have any thoughts on this?

    Thank you.

    PS – when those figures for £550 came out, was every selection taken for that period of 7 days?

    As I am currently putting £50 stakes on a few horses? .. or should I maybe put £25 stakes on all the selections?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Robin,

      You can back check exactly what happened with those selections in the first week as all the back dated selections will still be in the members area.

      Ben

    • John says:

      Hey Robin,

      May I ask how long you’ve been using this? And have you had any accounts restricted? Thank you

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Robin

    My letter you received today was pretty clear I thought, it said: “At the time I’m writing this letter it’s just 5 days since…”

    You will appreciate that it takes time to print and package a mailshot and then 2 days for the Royal Mail to deliver it.

    Obviously more time has passed since then and the results have kept coming in. As of right now, its £721.

    Tim Lowe

    • robin says:

      Tim,

      Thank you, I was just wondering.. YEs the system is amazingly simple and profitable.. What more could anyone ask for!

      Can I ask without giving to much away.. how far is Lee away from that other calculator which is mentioned in the “advanced” video which lowered the loss massively?

      Regards

  • Lewis says:

    Six million dollar question!Thinking long term with steady profits and capital growth in mind,would a beginner be better off doing this rather than matched betting, which would inevitably result in many bookie accounts being restricted or banned.

  • Lewis says:

    Thanks for your reply Ben. I’m looking longer term and this fits the bill with the benefit of no rollover requirements.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hi Robin

    I’m not sure how far away Lee is from his advanced extra method calculator, he’s actually done it but we await the technical department making it into a user friendly gadget. They say 2 weeks but that can mean 2 hours or 2 months!! It all depends on how fast the propellers are turning which cool their brains….

    I’m sorry but ‘Soon’ is my best answer.

    Tim Lowe

    • robin says:

      Tim,

      1 final thing, do you ever plan on putting in a ticket system? as I seem to be asking questions on here, which maybe Lee would be better to help with?

      As I wouldn’t want to put all these questions on Ben’s site.

      Regards.

      • Ben says:

        Hi Robin,

        You are most welcome to ask questions here 🙂

        Ben

        • robin says:

          Thanks Ben, 🙂

          Not sure if this is giving to much away so don’t post if so, but…

          I know we can turn a loss into a profit.

          But I have a horse, which I backed. Went on to check the price to lay of.. But was coming out a loss. Went back 1 hour before the race as advised, but still looking at a 20% loss.

          Furthermore, I know we have a get out of jail card. But we cant rely on this, as it can only be used a few times. Do I just accept a 20% loss ( its trading after all), or can I do something differently?

          Regards.

          • Ben says:

            Hi Robin,

            You will firstly want to see if the initial bet was with a BOG bookmaker, and if so, then you will only be at a loss because the price has drifted upwards, in which case I would look at what the price is now with the bookmaker, and then calculate the anticipated BSP for that horse.

            That way you will probably see (if it is s BOG selection) if indeed it was a loss, because many times the BOG turns it into a profit with the bookmaker price increasing also, or at least could cancel it out, or make a 20% loss into a much less of a deficit.

            So I would check that first before cashing it out, but I wouldn’t leave it too late.

            Ben

          • robin says:

            Thank you Ben,

            I have been through the site with a fine comb.. Only problem with the situation I explained. Even though the bookmaker was a BOG. Betfair’s lay price was above the Bookmaker 🙁

            Meaning I just couldn’t get out of the 20% loss.

      • Ben says:

        Hi Robin,

        Ah well, you cannot win them all,

        Good luck with tomorrow’s selections.

        Ben

  • Tim says:

    This appears to be the best “trading/gambling” system I have ever seen and that is 40yrs plus experience. An extra $50 or so a day would be life changing to me.

    My only issue is that I live in Australia. I do have many BOG bookies, but timing of the nightly selections is my concern. We are about 10hrs ahead over here, so at 6.00pm there, it would be 4.00am here.

    As it seems vital that the bets are made immediately after receiving them, I may have to begin my days far earlier than I am used to.

    I am not technical at all, but is it possible to set an alert on your phone for when the bets come through?

    Regardless of how I go, bravo to all involved in this, I have seen so much rubbish over the years, very refreshing to see something so genuinely profitable, and for a very reasonable cost as well.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hi Robin

    I think you should expect about 29% of all trades to make a small loss like this. That is what we say in the sales letter and the amounts we show you can make are based on us losing 29% of the time.

    That said, if you tell us the race and odds you took, I’ll ask Lee to see if there was anything you could have done as it is very unusual for a BOG bet not to make a big profit.

    Regards

    Tim

  • Bernie says:

    hi Ben,
    i just wish to say that I really do applaud the way you run this website. There are many such mediums online where people congress and it almost always leads to slanging matches and sniping at one another, and you seem to have created a nice pleasant atmosphere on here that allows for reasoning and at the same time not allowing the trolling that is so very present in other websites and forums.
    well done you are an example to all!!

  • John says:

    Hey Ben

    Thank you for reviewing this product.

    Please how can I reach you on email?

  • Kiwi says:

    Looks very interesting so will give it a try.By the way, you must have the patience of Jobe, to answer all those questions, of whiich quite a few are rather silly and could be answered dy a little thought!! All the best mate and thanks
    Kiwi

  • Patrick Stratton says:

    Some years back I joined something called free easy money which was a free bet scheme and I ended up joining umpteen betting sites and funding them to get goingeverything got very messy and bombarded with betting offers . I closed the scheme ending up with these sites with money in them and not being allowed to withdraw all my money without having another bet.
    How is this similar I am still a member of Betfair and don’t mind 5-6 sites. Also winnings had to remain in each site Messy

    • Ben says:

      Hi Patrick,

      What you have just described is everything what has been wrong with matched betting, regarding bookmakers making customers jump through hoops to get the money out.

      This product does not rely on bonuses, it is straight forward single bets with the bookmakers, and then using Betfair the next day to make the profit, hopefully.

      Ben

  • kieran says:

    hey ben,just been reading through the user comments on here and urs and tims views on 2minutetrader..i trade betfair myself personally but only as a beginner as theres lots to learn..but i love this approach and am fascinated to try this. as with other peoples questions on here about liquidity the night before then yes sometimes there is and sometimes not ( no worries about ever being restricted with bookies when we can use that option! ) but its an approach that can be used with bookies also even though il still look at exchange prices. what time do u email the prices every evening mate? id like to purchase this pretty soon and even more so with the guarantee with it. cheers

    • Ben says:

      Hi Keiran,

      I don’t personally email the prices, it is not my product, but the prices are emailed between 6-9pm every evening.

      Actually nobody emails them, they are sent automatically by the software.

      To give an idea:

      Last night: there were 3
      Night before: there were 4
      Night before that: there were 5

      All were received between 6-9pm

      Ben

  • BRUNO says:

    Hi Ben,can you post todays results to compare with mine this is ma first day,thanks.

    • Ben says:

      Hi,

      Just to add to the above post, What I am saying is, for those who are thinking of joining.

      I would go by the figure of just over £5+ per trade, instead of what happened in the first week, because as we all (should) know, trading, and gambling is long term, and profits will definitely even out when comparing great weeks (as above) and average weeks.

      And because the first week produced fantastic results for members, new members who may be joining this week may expect the same results, which is why I said it would have been better had the first week been less profitable, to level out expectations.

      This is why I think at least 3 people have asked me the same question today; as they are comparing to last weeks results, which they shouldn’t be.

      Ben

  • leke says:

    Hi Tim
    I’m still finding difficult to purchase this product, I’ve called the office as you suggested but no there seems to be no real help. I don’t think dere is need for all this protocols. the fact is I’m WILLING to purchase this product and I’m only requesting for a favourable medium to pay.
    The options I’ve are neteller,skrill and PayPal as it seems my debit card can’t perform the transactions, please any help will be much appreciated thanks

    Leke

  • Scot says:

    Good review Ben but come on fella, you’re an intelligent lad and know the score, I have read loads of your stuff on here so isn’t this just a blown up version of jumping onto early steamers packaged up to look all nice and presentable?

    I could do the same without even joining this and so could you and you know it mate. This is nearly £400 a year for something we both could do. We chatted by email about that Acorns product if you remember so I defo know that you know your stuff so is it worth the cost for what we both know we could easily do. Hope you are keeping well anyway.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Scott,

      What I could do has no bearing really on the product. Most people do not have the experience I have, so I reviewed the product based on how the guy in the street would get on with it.

      Most people cannot do it themselves, or have the time. So having it automated is what they are paying for, but yes, you could do it yourself if you wanted to, and knew where to look for the horses that are dropping in price.

      Ben

  • Christopher says:

    Right now I’m just not seeing the 70% success rate the system claims to have. In reality, at least 50% of them drift and the ones that don’t just don’t come in enough. Your only real hope of making money with this is getting lucky with BOG wins

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Christopher

    You cannot expect 70% day by day, this is horse racing and you must expect losing and winning runs. In 4 months testing we had losing runs of 5 (real losses without a BOG) and winning runs of 20.

    That said, BOGs are not ‘lucky’ they are an inherent part of the system in that we are backing favourites so they are likely to win (1 in 3 on average) so if the price drops you make money and if it goes up but the horse wins, which it does often then you get more with BOG.

    I notice nobody was moaning last week when it was all wins, now we’ve had 2 or 3 losers people say it doesn’t work.

    We said you could earn between £500-£1,000 per month, some people have made well over £700 in two weeks so nothing to moan about in my view.

    Overall, we’re still way more than 70% profitable trades as well.

    Tim Lowe

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Scott

    Yes maybe you could do it yourself, but by that comment you are saying that you haven’t and that is the point, most people don’t want to do all the research and develop their own methods.

    We could all grow our own vegetables but few of us do, we shop in supermarkets and some of us even buy ready prepared vegetables or even, heaven forbid, ready cooked meals.

    One word tells us why – convenience.

    People value convenience and time saving services and are prepared to pay for it. Have you seen how much more expensive ready meals are than cooking everything yourself, much more than £35 a month.

    Tim Lowe

  • Lewis says:

    The way I see this is simple. I’ll jump on board very soon. If it doesn’t work for me after a couple of months, I can simply stop doing it. At least I’ll have tried out a system that looks reasonable rather than not giving it a chance by putting up loads of obstacles up front.

  • Christopher says:

    Tim Lowe

    Understood, I will endeavour to be more patient from now on. Just one quick question, last night their were 5 selections and I could only get on board of 3 of them. Do you think you need to be on every selection to make money in the long run or will it even itself out even if your not on every tip ?

  • Ben says:

    Hi All,

    Just to clarify, last night there were 7 selections given.

    Ben

  • Ross says:

    Hi Ben, having subbed a few days ago, one thing I would like to know is, when did you cash out during your trial period? Did you have a fixed time or did you do it at different times of the day? The owners of the product recommend a certain time in particular on the instruction manual. If I was to ignore this and close out at random times then i’d have to constantly be scanning Betfair for each race throughout the day, which unfortunately i dont have the time to do.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Ross,

      When I was testing it there wasn’t even an instruction manual as such, but basic instructions given.

      At first I started cashing out that same night, because the odds dropped quickly on some occasions, so I did, but this was before I properly read the instruction which said that during ‘their’ testing, the optimum was around 11am, and an hour before the race starts, which I believe is now in the manual (have not read it fully, if being honest).

      I knew how this worked anyway (as I know how to do it manually), so I tested various times to cash out, and again, if being honest most of the time I did it around noon, unless the race was very late in the afternoon.

      My advice would be to stick to what the manual says.

      As I knew how to check certain factors, I could predict, but most people won’t know how to do that, so yes, I have to say to stick to the manual’s times for advising when to cash out.

      Ben

  • Scott Hennell says:

    I brought my first month of this product 2 days ago after reading a lot of positive views. So far I have been in the minus both days at 11am of the two days I have been testing only 2 trades have been in profit, I have testing waiting to closer and up to an hour before but wasn’t really any ideal time. It looks as if I have just had bad timing on the back of a great run so I am prepared to give much more time to level out! thanks for sharing

    • Ross says:

      @Scott Hennell yes i’m in that exact position too. Looks like we caught it on a bit of down wave but obviously it’s very early days and the loss has been very small (about a quarter of a point) so will keep plugging away for at least a month and give it a thorough test. Even today looks like it’ll be positive result overall.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Christopher,

    I don’t think you need to be on all selections, in fact we weren’t during testing, we only took about two thirds of the trades because we were doing all the research manually.

    You will find that the first selection will drop very quickly as soon as it’s announced which means you have maybe 5 minutes to get on but later selections will be slower moving and in some cases you will have several hours, although it is best to move as soon as you can.

    BTW as Ben says, there were actually 7 selections last night.

    Ross,

    Actually there are not specific times mentioned, it is between two times so a range.

    As Ben says, a thorough study of the manual is a good plan!!

    Scott,

    OK, the biggest issue we have had is people not properly reading the manual and making errors as a result.

    There were 7 selections last night, one would have been a losing trade BUT as the horse won there was a big BOG payout.

    We cashed out the other 6 for a profit in all cases.

    A couple of issues with paper trading we’ve noticed. People often forget the BOG payouts and almost always forget the reduction factor when there are non-runners, both will make big differences to your results.

    I hope this helps

    Tim Lowe

    • Scott says:

      Thanks for the reply Tim, can you tell me when you cashed out the final trade? (21:20) For me it has never been in profit all day (still time though). The main issue for me so far has been the cashing out time, it hasn’t been as simple as logging in at 11am or an hour before the race and being in profit but again like I said only over two days so I can’t comment too much!Thanks again and I am sure I will be in profit soon.

      • Ben says:

        Hi Scott,

        Cut and paste this into your browser, and you can see where it dipped below 3.5, no times on it unfortnately, although looks like it is coming down again:

        betfair.com/exchange/horse-racing/marketactivity?id=1.127583301&selectionId=11466743

        The two horses either side of it are drifting, so I would keep an eye on that, as the last money staked on your horse was at 3.75, so still a possibility it will steam down slightly.

        Favourite looks to be steaming slightly, so keep a keen eye on it.

        Ben

  • anwar says:

    Hi thinking to join this got some questions, i will have between £1500 to £2000 starting bank next month, got some questions for ben or others who are using these systems.

    1. im thinking can i combine EWS with this method without being gubbed? i haven’t tried either yet but read great reviews.

    2. say for example i get emailed the night before 2 races to back at the bookies, can i use the same races and back on other bookies at the same time so £50 each on william hill, then £50 each on paddy power etc and somehow manage to lay them of at betfair the following day?

    3. is it possible to make £50 to £100 per day with this or commbined with each way sniper?

    would like to hear your thoughts on this many thanks.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Anwar,

      We have already had a conversation by email, haven’t we, where I declined to help you with a counterfeit copy of another well known Tim Lowe product.

      EWS has nothing to do with this product, so I would say no, it cannot be combined.

      Ben

      • anwar says:

        thanks for your reply, but can you please answer the above question please? i thought i saw something similar you done some posts above useing the same horse with multiple bookies and somehow laying them on betfair, how do you work out how much to lay for the same race say 5 times from different bookies?

        2. say for example i get emailed the night before 2 races to back at the bookies, can i use the same races and back on other bookies at the same time so £50 each on william hill, then £50 each on paddy power etc and somehow manage to lay them of at betfair the following day?

        • Ben says:

          Hi Anwar,

          The answer is yes to both, theoretically you could do that, and the calculator can work out the odds to lay for each respective bet you spread across the bookies.

          That would be no different to 5 different members doing it at the same time, the only difference will be the differing odds amongst the bookmakers, but you can use the calculator to modify laying stakes.

          Ben

          • anwar says:

            Hi many thanks for you reply i see great potential in this but the only problem i see is for example if i lay the horse for bet 1 on william hill and i want to lay the same horse again from paddy power if i go to betfair my first lay bet is already in place and i wont be able to do another on the same horse unless i lay again on top of my existing lay hope im making sense, would it be the case i use the calculator for WH bet 1 and input back odds and it will tell me how much to lay, then for bet 2 PP i will input the back odds again in the calculator and whatever price it tells me to lay i will just add that amount on top of my existing lay?

            hope im not confusing anyone, but if that is possible i can see great earning potential as you will be earning 5 times more per day? so when you said you earned over £700 in certain days if i followed the same bets with 5 bookies i would have earned over £3.500 ? am i dreaming?

        • Ben says:

          Hi Anwar,

          It is actually not a bad question. What you are talking about is trying to scale up, and as I said theoretically it is possible.

          Once you have worked out how much you need to lay on the exchanges, then that is a set amount.

          Where it would get complicated is in how the system works with BOG offers, and cutting your losses should a price move against you.

          As then you would have to relate with all the bookmakers, which ones had BOG, which didn’t, and try to resolve all positions, which practically, could be difficult.

          I would advise just sticking with one set of trades, and work out what works best for you, as you may see additional edges not already thought about, and then possibly scaling up with 1/2 additional bookmakers, but this is definitely not taught in the manual, or advised in the manual.

          Ben

          • anwar says:

            thanks i will purchase it this week and try with small stakes and try scale it up, and with the BOG i will just take a small loss as the other wins will out do the loss, but to be honest i dont know what BOG is but will find out when i buy it. and will definitely share my results here and if this works and can be scaled up for more profits im sure The owners of this system will be proud and many people who already bought the system will be too.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Anwar,

      BOG means Best Odds Guarantee. It simply means that the bookmakers who offer this will pay you out at the starting price odds should the price go up above the price that you have placed your bet at.

      For example, if you placed a bet at 3.5 and the odds drifted to a starting price of 4.2, you will get paid out as if you placed the initial bet at 4.2.

      Ben

  • Dave says:

    Hi Ben,

    I have purchased this product and have had modest returns so far. Some trades seem miles off when I go to lay and a couple of times I’ve kinda gambled and layed ‘in-play’ hoping for the odds to come down which luckily they have. I take it this isn’t recommended and has anyone else done this? On the other hand I’ve had a couple of nice BOG wins, unfortunately I’m gubbed with a few bookies so I’m either stake restricted or I dont get the BOG payout sadly. It’ so a bit hit and miss so far and I certainly haven’t seen any 40% trades in the 7-8 days that Ive had the product that is seen in the video. Also, a question about the reduction factor – are bookies just being tight by not offering part of your stake back when the odds change, the exchange stake changes which leaves you short in certain situations? They are quick to adjust the odds but surely in accordance they should part refund you if you’re not getting essentially what you’re paying for? I hope you understand the question!

    • Ben says:

      Hi Dave,

      I would suggest that you should contact Waverley with your results so they can can compare to their own.

      Regarding letting the lay bet go in play instead of taking the price on offer, personally I wouldn’t do it using this system.

      That is one part of the manual I would question, the ‘keep’ bit, because if the price is not matched, and then goes in play you could make a loss, and I will explain why:

      Even though you are covered in the ‘win or lose’ situation, assuming all monies are taken and accepted for both outcomes, if you don’t get fully matched in play, and it happens more than you realise with the volatility of in play liquidity, then you could make a loss. You may have £64.96 sat at 3.2 in the pink lay box, but if it goes in play, and only £1.67 gets matched due to low liquidity on the opposite side, or a quick spike in price, then a loss would be made.

      Anybody that has used stop losses on Bet Angel will know how the market can jump past your stop loss position without getting matched, and betting in play is no different.

      So make sure at that one hour point that your lay bet is matched, and although it may take a few minutes, do not let it go in play unmatched.

      Personally, I would keep it in play until the point of 1 hour before the race, then I would accept the price, and cash out

      We all do it though, and it is so tempting to trade in play sometimes, but unless you know what you are doing, I would avoid it.

      Regarding the reduction factor, it’s a fact of trading and gambling unfortunately, and nothing can really be done about it, and yes, I personally think they should pay out what they have taken the money based on, but it is always in the t & c’s.

      Ben

  • Benson says:

    Hi,

    Had this product for over a week now but only paper trading!

    But to me it seems the profit is won in the BOG and not actually finding horse that drop in odds.

    The system is meant to be played in 2min (like the name says)

    I cashed out of all bets around 1.45pm today!

    Start race was at 2.45, last race 6.45pm

    Four bets today!

    1st = -£5.38
    2nd = -£9.89
    3rd = +£33.00
    4th = -£13.80

    So today without any extra BOG wins we have made a profit.

    However…I am finding more bets don’t actually drift lower and with more drifting higher.

    I don’t sit watching the markets…when at work I log on around 12-1pm and cash out. Evening race a wait for around 4-5pm

    All in all I’m up like £300+…but only because of the nice BOG wins and not because the horse have actually dropped on price.

    So a mixed review soo far

  • Raymond says:

    I joined from the start and am up 180 euro with just 10 – 30 euro stakes.

    Really enjoy this trading system and I am glad not to have already fully hammered match betting (yet) as I agree with your opinion Ben. I want to use this system for long term and being gupped at the major bookies would make it less profitable (but not impossible though).

    One thing which I am facing is that I spend much more time than just 2 minutes per trade on this system. Mainly because I am always trying to look for a better price to lay during the day. As some of the other traders mentioned the suggested cash out times described in the manual will make you trade for a loss. BUT because of the BOG’s (which is part of the system) you will see yourself in profit at the end of the day!
    Although the BOG’s wins, I am placing lay trades even 10 minutes just before the race starts to take advantage of the price swings (which I believe is not advised)….I am curious about other traders experiences..

    • Ben says:

      Hi Raymond,

      I am pleased to see you enjoying it and making a few quid, it is what I do these reviews for, so thanks for the feedback.

      Those swing trades you mention, I think we all get caught up in them at some stage, as traders/gamblers as they can also be addictive when trying to resolve a position.

      I use that strategy a lot personally, almost like a guilty pleasure, and for fun, but I have to advise against it for this method, and keep to the rules 😛

      Ben

  • anwar says:

    hi ben just bought minute trader today and so far i didnt receive and new bets for tomorrow is that normal? or i should expect something a bit later? will try with £5 only once i get the email, i know its not much profit but before i start using large amounts like i plan to, i want to be confident in splashing out £50 bets or more on bookies and laying twice th on exchane.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Anwar,

      The selections are on the website also, you do not have to rely on emails.

      Ben

      • Davyd says:

        Hi Ben,

        It appears that there were no selections posted last night, I just checked the website. In your view, could there possibly be occasional days with this product where the software simply can’t see any viable choices?

        Thanks!

        • Ben says:

          Hi Davyd,

          The software is automated, so I suppose if the usual filters are not met, then there would be no selections.

          Although this week some days there have been 7 selections, so should even out.

          Ben

  • Lee Rowson says:

    Anwar

    I don’t believe there were any selections last night having checked my emails and the website.

  • Anwar says:

    Thanks Ben what I meant to say is there wasn’t any selection last night on the website too, maybe it’s the first time, so will check tonight if there’s any new update

  • anwar says:

    ok i will be paper trading for 1 week to see how much i make from £50 stakes, i have made a spreadsheet to input all the info, but there is a slight problem, either you have to be superfast and really do have 2 minutes to place your bets from the time you receive email or im would have been unnlucky as i wouldnt have got to place anny bets ass the odds have gone down now and according to the instructions i shouldnt place any bet today.

    so my paper trade will have to start ffrom tomorrow i guess, still keeping hope it may change back to the same odds later will see.

  • anwar says:

    ignore my previous comment i was looking at one bookmaker rather than others, yeah so the odds advertised is there and you dont have to hurry like i thought. but i didnt get the best price but 2nd best will do.

    i have updated my spreadsheet and will let you know how much i make every day for a week.

  • Jason says:

    Would the reasons the cash out values are bad this past few days because there is a lot more people is laying that horse,meaning the more people using this system the lower liquidity and poor results?

  • Tom says:

    Had to trade out for a loss on 3 out of 4 trades given for today (the other was a non runner), guess I’m relying on the BOG, again.

  • Raymond says:

    With the current prices, I am looking to trade out 1 hour – 30 minutes before the off….

  • Dave says:

    The recent selections have been very poor, the odds have drifted badly I’ve noticed more and more, how are these selections being picked? I’ve even noticed a couple of horses in the same race at the time I place my back bet that I think will reduce in price and lo-and-behold they have! I’m really starting to wonder about this system now, it’s a lottery waking up looking whether the odds have (now usually) drifted or if the occasional one has reduced. Even the reduction factor calculator doesn’t look quite right as we’re always underlying and relying that the horse wins in order to profit as of course if it loses you lose more money as you haven’t layed the correct amount.

  • anwar says:

    not a good start to paper trading, 3 out of 4 loss, one non runner. total lost from £50 stakes is £33 not a good start, will see tomorrow.

    also it seems you need to spend some time on this to see if the odds go down 1 hour before the race starts only if after 11am you cant cash out for profit.

    for someone like me who is working most weekdays will find it hard to keep up, it will be a simple cash out at 11am no matter win or lose and wont find time to wait and see if the odds come down.

  • Tom says:

    Might as well use this system to place a lay bet on the exchange initially and wait for the price to rise and make a profit that way..

  • lee-stuart says:

    Hi Guys ,

    For those subscribers I thought Id offer some observations from some of the most recent comments here. I have also now cashed out one of the 3 remaining trades of today ( one selection was pulled earlier so we just got out stake back) . Tom posted that he was fully cashed out at 11.09 am this morning which was pretty quick to sort three trades and post on a forum.

    The rules are clear about the window for cashing out up to 1 hour before the race, and for example today I just cashed out Mount March about 30 mins ago at 4.3 whereas Tom probably cashed out at 5.0 on betfair at 11am (uless he cashed out before 11am which isnt in the rules for a reason) Relying on the BOG IS part of the system and i says so in the manual , its been interesting to note the number of people commenting on winning more than expected and more frequently than expected with BOG as if its a bad thing. Today is a classic point.

    I, like most people will have 3 losing trades , but we know that 1 in three horses tend to win so statistically we are highly likely to have a BOG payout. What is interesting is that we know it has a 70% winning trade rate so we EXPECT 3 losers in 10 . On Friday we had a whopping 7 selections that were all winning trades for me . We then tell you not to trade weekends when you are just starting out ( as it can be much more volatile …but also much more profitable once you have mastered it) and despite that its obvious we have users ignoring this and trading at the weekend.

    If we have a 70% win rate on trades then we should expect losing trades …. and thats exactly what we get. 7 wins on Friday and WORST CASE 3 losing today assuming NO horses win . pretty typical across 10 trades .

    I’ve noticed a few people asking about bookie prices the night before and we are monitoring the prices closely on all bookmakers and can tell you that in most cases the selections have AT LEAST a 45 min window to get that price provided you have multiple bookmakers to choose from as per the manual.

    Members are correct that there were no selections Saturday night for Sunday ..if no horses meet the criteria we look for in volume and activity then we don’t send out a selections. simple as that . It shouldn’t really be a surprise that the weakest trading day of the week ( Sunday ) throws up the least number of selections AND people that are new to this system ( which at the moment is everyone ) shouldn’t be trading weekends yet anyway.

    Its been absolutely fantastic having people phone in having made MORE money than me this month and I’ve personally spoken to 5 people who have made in excess of £500 so far which is superb. If you follow the manual this system delivers excellent long term profits, and those I’ve spoken to by email and phone who are not doing as well have all been deviating from the rules in multiple ways to their detriment. Don’t overthink it , don’t try and improve something you’ve only just started using , sit back and let the profits speak for itself by following the rules.

    Its great to see Ben answering a lot of questions and queries here and I am super excited about the ‘whistles and bells’ we are working on behind the scenes to make your cashing out and trading even easier and faster in the next week with some upgrades to the website and the tools we give you.

    We all hate bookmakers…they are greedy , petty and underhanded….lets get together and go take some of that money back and have some fun doing it ! 🙂

    • Tom says:

      Hi,

      Yes I cashed out at 11:00am because how am I to be certain that the price of the horse will come down after that? The price of Mount March could had easily gone up to 5.5-6.

  • Jason says:

    Really it’s looking like it’s near a better method to back the horse and they lay straight away for a break even,then hope it drifts and get BOG if ithe wins at least that way you wouldn’t have lost as much money the next day laying for a loss

  • anwar says:

    jason not a bad idea that for example im down £30 paper trading and if it was real money i would be relying on bog win.

    but if i layed straight away lat night i probably be down £5 and be relying on bog.

    but its my firstday testing so will give it a week to judge. i still believe this system will make you money.

  • Raymond says:

    Haha really love these BOG win’s. I traded out with a 6 euro loss, but now I am in 15,43 euro profit with 50 euro stake!

    • Robin says:

      Raymond,

      How did today end up for you in total?

      • Raymond says:

        Hi Robin,

        I ended today with a profit of 24,63 euro. We had 3 BOG winners and 1 non runner, so did not had any loss. I used 30 euro and 50 euro stakes.
        But I need to be say I was trading out at odds 4.4, 3.95 and last one at 3.15.
        I was trading just minutes before the off and this is certainly not advised for un-experienced traders. When I am trading out I always look at the Betfair charts and look for trends (resistance & support levels) to trade out.

        • Craig Done says:

          In response to this i would like to say that if you are having to watch the market all day because of getting the best price to make this profitable, it certainly IS NOT 2 minute trading! This is basically Caan Berrys method without horse knowledge.

  • Raymond says:

    @Lee-Stuart,
    I have seen your advanced video in the members area.
    I am quite curious about the suggested improvements / new tool on the website.

    Just to make it more clear, will this new calculator reduce the losses, but as a result reduce the potential payout whenever the horse with higher BOG wins?

    • lee-stuart says:

      Raymond you are absolutely right. What i want to do is give people more tools if they want to , but personally id let them all run because the recovery system will almost certainly negate almost all of the extra BOG win ( which is exactly why it works)

      Jordan . trade as many or few trades as you want each night. the rules say no more in total stakes than 25% of your bank. As the results are consistent youll find that only taking 1 or 2 will be just as profitable in the long term as taking them all. We suggest trading smaller stakes across all selections if possible rather than just one as that way you often find that overall you are in profit every day. Today is a great example of that .

  • Jordan says:

    Hi,

    This systems seem really good – just a quick question. Is it possible to still make profit, if you don’t bet on every race that gets sent through. I.e 4 get sent through – but only able to bet on 2. Would it still be possible to make profit
    Thanks

  • ignacio says:

    hey one question for who are in, do you have to wait for your acces? some kind of activation after you get your password? because im trying to login with the info that i got from them and says its not correct. thanks and hope to see you inside 😉

  • Jordan says:

    Forgot to also ask – I have a starting bank of £150. What split would you recommend? How much would I put into the exchange and how much would I put into my account to be able to do the offers? Thanks

  • wsyne says:

    Right never normally post anywhere but there is no reason why this wont work.My mate does a variation of this trading for a living.I was with him on saturday and he finished up 875 pounds.That doesnt happen everyday but it was risk free.The week b4 that he won 1200 the week before it was 200.It can be done but he treats it like a job.I have nothing to do with this site or seller.Good luck,

  • Ross says:

    Hi Ben, if I delete all mpsnare/iesnare files from my system and put in a block on the Hosts file, is it then OK to use the laptop for backing/laying. I personally prefer using the laptop over the smartphone for bets (a rare thing these days it seems!)

    • lee-stuart says:

      Hi Ross

      that wont work you will get banned eventually blocking cookies . follow our rules they are heavily tested for a very very high success rate.

  • Jordan says:

    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply. You mention it is better to trade smaller stake across all sections, if I have a starting balance of £150 and you send for example 4 offers in a day – what stake would you put on each?

    Thanks

  • Tim Lowe says:

    LOTS of important points to make tonight.

    One simply cannot say, as one or two have ‘this doesn’t perform as the author says’ when you look at a week’s or even a month’s results.

    Over time all manner of things can happen, losing runs, winning runs, lots of BOGs no BOGS and so on.

    We had NO BOGs in August at all and almost no horses NOT winning their races so for people who think they can safely just do the lay part of the equation (as some have suggested) they would have gone bust that month.

    DITTO for just backing as we do pick a lot of winners, but NOT overall profitable, over time, if you just backed.

    I do believe we are having an exceptional number of BOGs at present, the average profit per trade in testing was under £6 (including losses) now it is nearly £16. I expect it to return to lower levels at some point.

    I also believe that some of our users are actually affecting the market at weak moments. For example, it is clear from our monitoring and emails to us that some people are completely disregarding the manual and doing the following:

    Attempting to back on the exchange the night before;

    Attempting to immediately cash out after backing;

    Attempting to cash out first thing in the morning;

    Attempting to cash out too close to the race or even ‘in play’;

    Attempting to use weaker exchanges like Smarkets;

    Backing at odds below those stated;

    It is also amazing how many people don’t realise they’ve made money because they forget to check all their accounts.

    People are becoming fixated on cashing out as early as they can which means the price hasn’t dropped and in fact they are so early that by laying they are actually applying upward pressure to prices because there is no money in the market.

    This means that bookies, who track Betfair, are raising back prices and so on, which may well contribute to the number of BOGs.

    However, I don’t imagine they will do this for very long as they will realise something has changed in the market.

    So enjoy it while you can!!!

    We are however looking at strategies to stop silly behaviour spoiling things for the majority (such as the man who’d never placed a bet in his life and put a £1,000 lay bet on an hour or so after he backed with £100 stakes on a raft of bookies he’d just opened accounts with).
    Then he emailed wondering why his lay wasn’t filled….

    Tim Lowe

    • Robin says:

      Tim,

      Great post! I especially loved the bit where someone later £1000 on his first bet, ?

      Only reason why I am replying is you said the market is changing? How do you mean?

      Thank you,

      Robin

      Ps. I have been in contact with Lee for a few emails., he pointed me in the right direction, and the system does work. I find people are moaning that they have a few loses!? They need to realise it’s a 70% SR!

    • Jordan says:

      Hi Tim,

      I know you say that bets should be 10% of your bank. But if I have a starting balance of £150 and you send for example 4 offers in a day – what stake would you put on each? If I wanted to do them all like recommended?

      Thanks

      • lee-stuart says:

        JOrdan,

        you wont know how many selections are coming through each night so i would suggest taking 5% or 10% of bank and getting at least the first two selections of the night . staking sizes as a proportion of overall bank is covered in the manual

  • Lewis says:

    Hi Tim,
    Re your comment..’However, I don’t imagine they will this for very long as they will realise something has changed in the market. So enjoy it while you can.’ Are you hinting that this trading method may be temporary or have I misread your quote?

    Thanks.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hi Lewis/Robin

    No, I don’t think this method will be short lived. What I meant was that I think the amount of BOGs we’ve had is a temporary (wonderful) ‘blip’ and the market will correct back to the sorts of numbers we got in testing, still brilliant but not at the £500 a week level.

    Tim

  • Craig Done says:

    Hi all,

    I have tried this method and I have trialled it over a week and paper traded every single horse.

    I can honestly say (and if you want the list i can provide it) that only one horse actually dropped enough to make profit due to the commission on betfair it needs to be too much of a drop to work. For example if you get a ‘tip’ of 2.35, it will probably only ever drop to 2, and in most cases wont drop at all.

    In fact id have lost a considerable amount in the first week or so ad only chance of making losses back would be BOG wins, this is then gambling.

    I will be requesting a refund today, this is a completely honest opinion from somebody who already trades betfair for a living.

    Craig

  • Craig Done says:

    What I would like to know is, if i picked every selection every day for a month with £100 stakes last month, what figure of profit would I be sitting here with including all bogs, from today 30 days previous. This is the only way I will know whether it is worthwhile…

    Can anybody answer that? Because im not in it for 30 or 40 quid a week i would be upping stakes to make it more worthwhile but nr over the limits given in the manual, i have around 60 accounts of each if need be…

    • lee-stuart says:

      Craig , £50 stales on every selection for the first month made a total profit of over £1122 .

  • lee-stuart says:

    Hi Craig, In answer to your question we live trade £50 per stake and have taken every selection since launch on the last day of Sep and so far we have made £941 so you can extrapolate from there.

    Hi Jordan , the rules for staking based on bank are int he manual . if you have a £150 bank then you are told to not use more than 25% of bank in any one night. this would equate to £37.50. you only stake round figures of £10 or £25 £50 or £75 or £100 so you would probably start with £10 stakes for now while your account built up. on this stake size you could do up to 3 selections per night. remember you never know how many selections there will be , but 3 to 5 per night is a fair average.

  • Jason says:

    Just looking at last night’s selections,out of the 3 there is just one that is in a small profit,other two at a loss and hoping for BOG wins again.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Jason

    Its funny how you keep moaning about this BUT it’s profitable, no matter where the money is coming from.

    I can tell you that all users are about to get an email asking them to PLEASE STICK to the rules as what you are seeing is a few people making stupid mistakes and moving the market. We just watched users take a price of 4 just seconds after the price was 2.88. It was back at 2.96 moments later.

    My advice to you Jason is to have a refund if you are so unhappy at making money this way.

    Tim Lowe

  • Jason says:

    Yea Tim it may be users just trying to cash out at bad times taking money from the lay price driving it upwards.
    I’ll await the email.I don’t want a refund I want to make money.

  • Tom says:

    Quite a nice BOG on Spanish City 🙂

  • Raymond says:

    This system sure knows to pick the winning horses. The last selection gave me a profit of 54 euro with 50 euro stake. I am not complaining :-).

  • lee-stuart says:

    Just a quick additional note on ‘paper traders’

    paper trading will require a lot of work to get a realistic set of results. Firstly you’ll need to check every winning horse SP for the best bookies when a horse wins and secondly every single winning horse that had an RF put into the calculator will make you a few pounds more than expected if it wins. This is because for safety we round down slightly the RF but err on the side of caution. All is explained in the manual .

    to summarise if you are judging this on paper trading you are likely to be fairly unimpressed unless you understand the detail of the system. Far better after a week to dig in and at least get cracking with £10 stakes. and keep checking your bookie accounts on the wins…youll quickly see the profits roll in …. and isnt that the point ?!! Every person who has been in touch with me by email or phone claiming losses has finished with me pointing out they’ve been in profit without even realising it. Read the manual , understand the manual , follow the rules including when to cash out ( not too early and not too late) and repeat until rich. 🙂 easy

  • ignacio says:

    how much are you aiming to win for a winning trade? i mean when you say im on green i will lay now. i didnt find any info about that on the site, just says when is suitable to me. i think they should give a few lines about this. for example 5% of bookie bet profit is good enough or something like this

  • Benson says:

    I can’t comment much as only paper trading…

    However…this system SHOULD find value!

    I’m finding that most bet actually drift up and not down!

    Cashed out of two bets today 3.20 & 3.30, one drifted up and then the another one was the same..(someone said a horse won soo would made a nice profit)

    Same storey yesterday and Saturday!

    Yes this profit it make profit…actually more profit then it should because of the BOG

    BUT this product should be about value and not RELYING on the BOG…it would be a NICE bonus not the main profit in my view.

    I would prefer knowing most bet drift lower by 12pm the next day then hoping the BOG kicks in.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Benson,

      I have not been about much this week as I have been busy, but some of the comments on here make me shake my head.

      “It shouldn’t be about BOG, it should be about this, and that…..”

      Surely, the product is about making a profit. IE: more money in your bank than what you started with after a set period time of time.

      Making money from bookmakers is hard enough as it is without trying to define set rules for how the profit has to be made.

      That is like saying, “well, sure, you found a £5 note, but unless it is folded into the shape of an orange, then it is not really a fiver”.

      Let’s stick to the facts please, which is what this website is about.

      Thank you.

      Ben

  • Mark says:

    I traded today for the first time u sing 15 stakes. I logged onto betfair about 12 and placed my lay bets. I noticed the prices had drifted up. I expected them to drift down. Still o wasn’t too bothered as the losses weren’t huge. Then hit the BOG and made 27 quid profit. A bit of luck no doubt but I’m happy with that.

    • ignacio says:

      i think what nobody is thinking is that if you have 40-60% to win 20+$ vs 40-60% lose 3$ is a great deal on long term. so i dont get why most of ppl are complaining about winning with bogs

  • Benson says:

    Ben…

    I understand what your saying, however It would give people more confidence if the product was showing more horses that drift down then up!

    Even thou it’s making more profit then it really should be at the moment.

    Might be just a bad week…i have had the system for 10 days and most day haven’t been great! Had about 4 big drifts what made like £20-£30 A lot losing/break even trades of £0-10 and a few bad swings £20-£30.

    But the BOG would have made up for all of the above and would be in profit by a good few hundred pounds.

    All I saying is yes it working….but not in the way the manual reads thou…

    If you want out and brought new car knowing it goes 0-60 in 9.8 second and when you tested it, it actually goes 0-60 in 5.5 second….you don’t complain as it faster but in the back of your head you know something isn’t right.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Benson,

      I also understand what you are saying, but this is not like making a consumer purchase, and one of the biggest problems I see in the ‘make money’ industry, is people expecting money making opportunities to be clean cut.

      If you purchase a washing machine then you know exactly what you are getting, a tin box that washes your clothes to certain temperatures.

      Business opportunities are never going to be like that, no matter how the marketer advertises them.

      I have also never come across an opportunity that works that way, there are always going to be variables, and sometimes adjustments.

      Ben

      • kletta says:

        Hi Ben,
        I think what most people are wondering is whether the system can be profitable with the current odds they are getting coupled with the number of BOGs that were achieved during the testing period.

  • ignacio says:

    ben, when you tryed the system how much % of the back bet you was aiming to get before place the lay on winning pick

  • stever20 says:

    I have had some good results and the BOG do make it worthwhile. However, I got an email from bet victor saying they were restricting the BOG offers on my account. I received another email today saying they have taken the decision to close my account

    • Robin says:

      Steve,

      Any indication as to why they have done that? For future reference for anyone else and yourself of course?

      Did you place a % of the BOG profits in a casino or slots like the manual states?

      Also did you leave the initial deposit in the Bookie?

      Thanks 🙂

  • Jason says:

    That is a worry Steve,hopefully other bookies won’t do the same?
    Do u also use that account for matched Betting?

  • lee-stuart says:

    hi guys

    Dont worry about the Betvictor gubbing for a few reasons. It is not indicative of bookies in general. Firstly Betvictor rarely have the best price so we dont often use them ….and that is generally the issue… because you only tend to go there every now and then they see you as a value gambler who shops around for prices. Secondly did you take the free bet ? that can sometimes have an effect as well. Over the past few years Ive found Betvictor is a bookmaker that limits people very very quickly for seemingly no activity at all. im guessing with you , but if this isnt a new account and youve done match betting in the past this will play a factor. Youll never know the reason but as long as you have followed the rules regarding not being limited to the letter then you are very very unlikley to see this from any other bookmaker.

  • Dave says:

    I was having a decent day up until just now when a huge reduction factor has come into play AFTER I had placed both bets on the horse at Newton Abbott – I never know if it’s better for a horse to win or lose (or if it’s irrelevant). Looking at my exchange there appears to be a big swing which indicates I have lost a load of money somewhere (over £100, I bet £120 in total) the ‘sell’ part of the bet ticket has odds a lot lower so am I under the impression it’s a case of I’ve lost money in this instance? I’m assuming get most people would have had this issue today as the non-runner must have been a late pull out and a huge reduction factor applied…not happy!

    • Ben says:

      Hi Dave,

      Have you checked your bookie accounts for the overall projection on the day, as it seems many are not doing that as has been mentioned on this thread a few times.

      Ben

      • Dave says:

        Hi Ben,

        Yes I’m always checking my bookie accounts and keep up-to-date records of exactly where my money is. I have a running monthly total of profit etc. It just occurred to me that a huge reduction factor after both bets are placed might mean a huge loss as it appears you are underlaying selections, is that correct? In the same way you get a RF from the bookie if your horse wins? If this is the case and I’m guessing it doesn’t happen that often, then I wanted to make people aware that this is a big risk as you’re exposed with nowhere to turn? It’s turned a good day into a bad one in one race

        • Ben says:

          Hi Dave,

          It is certaily possible if factors are happening after the lay has been made, but I would say it is more of a blip than the norm.

          I have not done much trading myself this week, or checked results.

          Here’s hoping for a better day for you tomorrow.

          Ben

        • ignacio says:

          this is what happend shorlty before race starts, probably all was already “layed”
          (RF Peter The Mayo Man 29.45%)

        • lee-stuart says:

          on the contrary dave , a huge RF after you have placed the lay bet ( and got filled ) can only IMPROVE your profit if the horse goes on to win. it cannot get worse. betfair always have a higher RF than bookies so although your betfair liability may be reduced by ..for example 13.2% you will find the bookie only applies a 10% RF on your potential winnings. this means that if the horse goes on to win there is a 3.2% discrepancy in your favour between money lost with betfair and money won with bookmaker.

    • lee-stuart says:

      An RF AFTER you have placed your lay bet can only improve your situation not make it worse

  • Jon says:

    Not a very good week for this system regarding the drop in prices, maybe 2 or 3 have dropped out of 20. Relying on the BOG just seems like gambling, not trading.

    • Dave says:

      I was thinking the same Jon, theres no where near enough trades dropping and when they do they certainly arent as much as expected. In fact you have to monitor the prices extensively during the day to get our ‘best price’ as the price drift has been quite dramatic in some cases. When it’s all stripped back a lot of the trades are relying on BOG which isn’t really what I thought this system provided, surely we’re paying for the software behind the trades and not a bookmakers SP payouts

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Jon

    I’m sorry but you are incorrect.

    Last Friday had 6 outright wins plus one BOG, yes, Monday Tuesday and Wednesday was all BOGS and so £111 profit (£50 stakes) those three days, Yesterday was 4 wins (including one BOG) and 2 losses and so far today we’ve cashed out 2 wins, one loss and still have 2 to cash out.

    Overall, I’d say that was pretty good money and our overall win rate is what we told people to expect.

    People KEEP moaning about BOGs but they are part of the system – I can tell you that we are predicting that one of today’s wins will ALSO be a BOG when it runs. That is not a problem, it is a bonus.

    Tim Lowe

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Dave

    I really cannot believe your comment. You are paying £35 for a service which, despite all the people insisting it should work differently, has delivered £1050 of profit in 3 weeks.

    However it’s done it, it’s done it.

    As I’ve already said, in fact the strike rate, disregarding BOGS is about right.

    There is a another long email coming out later explaining why people are causing their own problems and would make much more if they didn’t jump in and cause spikes in prices.

    If you are unhappy with the current profits then I cannot think of anything else which would make you happy either.

    Tim Lowe

    • Dave says:

      Hi Tim,
      Thanks for your reply. I understand and appreciate how the system works and think it’s sound and have no problem with how it can work – in theory. My issues are we seem to have to be on our phones a lot during the day as you can log in at times which are convenient but the prices on offer at the time can be poor. I regularly check for best prices during the day and try to get the best price possible. No way have I made these kinds of profits you say since I started which was around the time this was available and I’ve been trading on average £80 per race and not £50 as I have the bank. I’m just hoping that a few things can be a bit tightened up… having to underlay when RF’s come in to play which causes losses if the horse loses and massive odds drift being two issues. I thought the system would be better at picking odds that reduce a lot like in the video, in the last 2 week’s I can only think of 1 horse that massively reduced in price and a lot of horses that drifted badly. As I said the theory behind the system is good and I do like it and will continue until the end of the month to see if things pick up as at the moment I have days when I’ve lost money and sadly it hasn’t just been a one-off. I’m sure other people like what I’ve seen post on here would agree that not enough horses are reducing in price, a few pounds profit with slightly reduced odds (which you say are in the 7/10 ratio which is correct) are completely wiped out and more in a lot of cases when odds badly drift/RF losses

      • lee-stuart says:

        Dave your comment about trading £80 a race is worrying. The manual is very clear about betting round amounts like a gambler of £10 , £25 , £50 , £75 or £100.

        • Dave says:

          Lee-Stuart,
          I trade about that per race across 2-3 ‘best priced’ bookies.
          Looking to be like another poor day at the office here guys, Cockney Island has drifted horrendously badly after email advice to watch if it drifts or comes in which I’ve done, the other 2 just haven’t dropped anywhere near to make any money, guess relying on BOGs yet again which is just a lottery really, becoming a habit of not making money with this system sadly

          • lee-stuart says:

            both the other two have been in profit for a significant part of the day from 11am today .

  • ignacio says:

    i think would be better if this site add a forum

  • Mark says:

    This is my 2nd day and I have been following the rules. I did ok with the bog a few days ago. Today I’m down a tenner. I’m following the rules I’m not laying too early and I ask for a better price etc. Unfortunately I’m unable to sit and keep checking my phone on betfair as I work.part of my interest in this system was the 2minute part. Unfortunately this isn’t as said. Now don’t get me wrong I will continue as I do see hiw this can work. I don’t want be be negative. But the drops are nothing like advertised and I do feel as though I’m relying in the bog to profit. I will leave it over the weekend as advised and I will try again next week. Maybe the changes advised will help

  • ignacio says:

    and tim as i said many times, you should sugest a % to aim on each trade, example 5% of back bet is good enough because if any lay at any odds its imposible to compare profits wich you afirm to earn

  • Jon says:

    This system was proberly put on their market a bit early, yes the system may work brilliantly to maybe only a couple of people testing it, but the prices are going to fluctuate more when there is 50-100 people using it. Now that people are starting to lose money, they are starting to release videos on how to make your money back etc, which they should had done before the release, instead of looking at how easily the system can make money, they should had looked at what can go wrong and how to avoid losing trades

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Jon,

    Frankly it’s user error at fault not the system but people don’t like to hear that. That said nobody should be ‘losing money’. You must expect losing trades and nobody following the rules us nit in profit every week do far. About £170 this week which is exactly what we told you to expect.

    But here’s the thing, it’s got a money back guarantee so if you feel that making 20 times, or more, what you paid is not good enough then give up and have a refund. But please don’t try and lecture on how we should develop and test products when you have no idea what’s involved.

    Tim Lowe

  • Patrick says:

    Tim can you use an Apple iPad for this as it’s the same as an iPhone.
    Secondly I will surely be glued to it for 3 hrs as all emails signals are the same
    Thirdly with how much money to start with in bank how many bookies do we have to load before betting?

  • lee-stuart says:

    We havent tried and tested with an I pad so we cant be sure , but we think using an I Pad would be more advantageous than using a PC in helping to prevent being limited by bookmakers.

    there are only 2 to 5 emails per night for signals so you dont need to be glued to it , just wait for the email alert ping ( one of the reasons we prefer a phone because you can be out and about in the evening with no need to be stuck to a PC or tablet screen)

    finally staking is explained in the manual as well as bank management …and we put an announcement out ot existing members on friday as many seem to have worngly felt they need to pre load their bookie accounts which they dont, simply deposit money into a bookmaker just before you want to make your first bet .

    Also we are very pleased to announce the first of many stage 2 improvements which today include an all new cashout calculator that is horse race specific and AUTOMATICALLY fills in the night before selection price and the RF of any horses that have been pulled so users no longer have to worry about looking up and correctly inputting reduction factors ..its all done for you !

    • Nick says:

      Lee-Stuart
      Having an all singing all dancing calc is fantastic. However, we cannot access it until after 11am for reasons which have been explained. That’s fine but from being in decent profit pre-11am to in big loss post-11am you have made the decision for me to have no choice but to lose money.

  • lee-stuart says:

    nick

    whatever the price is doing pre 11am isnt hugely relevant. there is so little liquidity at that time that even if you wanted to cash out unless you had £10 stakes or less you would have had trouble getting filled. Overall allowing the markets to mature and settle price wise at 11am gives users the best chance to get filled and make a profit across a decent number of trades. Whatever your observations for today I can point to plenty of users last week how madly cashed out at 11am last week and regretted doing so as they saw the price come in for the rest of the day .

  • anwar says:

    Hi im glad this is improving but last week i emailed both waverlymedia and tim to cancel my order and too get a refund, yet got no response and also on the 2minute trader i think there should be a contact information for everyone as i see its difficuly to get in contact and i have to use bens website to do that.

    ben if you dont mind please allow this message to get through here as ive done what you emailed me to but also no reply.

    apologizes for writing here but i see no other choice.

    i will buy this again when i am ready but at the moment i am focusing on something else and dont have the funds to do both thats why no point in paying £35 a month if i dont use it.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Anwar,

      Yes, I did email you contact information, which included telephone number also.

      I expect it is probably a spam issue, and also remember that Monday is the busiest day of the week for most businesses.

      Ben

  • The Drifter says:

    If the system is so reliant on BOG, what’s to stop me randomly backing and laying a load of favourites each night for little or no loss and hoping they win?

  • Tom says:

    Serves me right for cashing out of the BOG today, as the odds drifted a lot, I cashed out for a £9 loss, turns out I would’ve won £100+, damn it, but still a profit overall today

  • lee-stuart says:

    Yesterday 2 small wins and a nice bigger win. of which one horse won its actual race

    today same thing , 2 nice wins , one a BOG and the other a massive steamer Captain McGinley which steamed from 4 to 2.12 before going on to lose at its actual race . profits so far this week on 6 trades are £70.77 ( on £50 stakes) with 5 winning trades 1 losing trade and 2 horses out of 6 winning their race.

    Interesting to see the steamer today outperformed the BOG…..

    more videos in the members area showing you how to get value out of cashing out and not get ripped off, all the old videos re recorded for extra sound too and the new cashout calculator is a very welcome addition making members life a doddle when we get non running horses.

    We are working on a drift or steam indicator next for each selection that will be visible on the cashout calculator for each horse selection. expect that in the nest 2 weeks. this will allow members to judge whether to cash out earlier or leave until later to get he best profits and the lowest possible losses.

    Can i just remind actual members that Im here to help not hinder..if you are stuck or concerned or feel you arent doing as well as you should be then get in touch with me direct on email or telephone. Every single person ive worked with over the last 3 weeks has sworn blind they’ve followed the rules and every single one has found they’ve made mistakes on 40 to 50% of their trades and gone on to make much more money having spoken to me. Most have also admitted that in speaking to me they’ve realised they haven’t actually read or understood all aspects of the manual fully.

  • Gary says:

    Hi Ben
    Just need to understand something !!
    It states to start with a £150 bank , now does that mean we put £150 into 1 bookmaker, or split it over 5 bookmakers ?? also what about putting money in our betfair account ??? how does that work mate

      • Gary says:

        Hi Ben
        So am I right as follows >>>
        I want to start with £150..i place 10% of my £150 on EACH of the suggested bets which is £15 on say 3 or 4 selections at the bookies.
        That is £45 – £60 for the horse to win…that’s it for the night ??
        Then next day I go to betfair exchange and using the calculator I lay that horse ??
        So if the horse wins, my betting account in each of the bookies rises ready for the next bets ??
        If it loses I win at betfair ?
        Do I have to use 10 bookies and place small bets ?
        When will I know when to withdraw any money won ?? that’s what I don’t get .

  • Chris says:

    Im suprised at the hubris displayed by lee-stuart after todays racing. In fact if he’d followed the advice he sent by email this morning ref Captain Mcginley he would have had to lay at around 3 rather than 2.2. In fact the only way he could have got 2.2 was if he had layed the horse early while advising his members to wait until later. This is by far not the only anomoly.
    Shame as the system is profitable if BOG wins come in but members using the system must be getting fed up now at the tellings off follwed by misguidance ref results.

  • lee-stuart says:

    Chris

    Another 2 nice trades so far today cashed out and run with prices below our selection price right up to the 1 hour before race mark.

    My mistake about 2.2 on yesterdays horse, that was the betfair data , our own tick data shows the low was 2.54 from 11am. ( we only take data every 3 mins whereas betfair data is every second and there was a HUGE nosedive at 9.30am yesterday) I got filled at 2.86 so i didn’t get the best price but still got a tidy profit because I did what I told people to do which was watch the market and see what happens over an hour or two and decide then . There are a few videos in the members area to help you cash out for the best price possible. whatever time you cashed out on that horse you would have got between 30% and 50% of stake which is superb.

    Im offering my view in the morning at the moment until we can get an indicator set up for each horse to give members a super quick idea of whether a price is likely to come down or not.

    As always I’m here to help if people want to call or email me rather than post here. So far I’ve yet to speak to a single person who I couldn’t improve their skills with…. and ALL have had me say the phrase ‘ If you read the manual here you will find ‘…. 🙂

    Follow the rules to the letter and you’ll make money every week.

  • Jason says:

    LEE – STUART
    you say paypal is the quickest method of depositing and withdrawing. but if i need to withdraw from betfair by paypal, i need to have already deposited into it through paypal, but there is as 2% fee to deposit,so then i have to deposit throgh my Bank card and can only withdraw through my card which can take a few days and can hold up trading for the next day. am i missing something or how do you suggust depositing and withdrawing quickly. sorry for asking here but there is no contact info on the website

  • Tim Lowe says:

    For those interested in numbers, despite criticism that this product makes too much money(!) because it relies heavily on BOGs and doesn’t work in the way we say, last week was a salutary lesson for those critics.

    Last week had an overall profit of £102.46 on £50 stakes.

    There were 15 selections with just 3 losing trades so 80% strike rate, which is better than we advertise but the previous week was worse so all in all, about where we state.

    Only 2 BOGs contributed to the 12 winning trades.

    Two horses, Italian Riveria and Captain McGinley made notable big profits from price drops without a BOG.

    Average profit was £6.80 per trade which again is better than the £5.75 we advertise.

    As we’ve said many times, we pick winning horses (as opposed to trades) about a third of the time, last week 5 horses out of 15 won their races, exactly as expected.

    Tim Lowe

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am not including Saturday’s results since we advise against trading the weekends until you’ve been doing this for a few weeks.

    There were 8 selections on Saturday (none on Sunday).

    There were 6 winning trades, no BOGs.

    Profit for the day at £50 stakes would have been £32.68.

    Tim Lowe

  • lee-stuart says:

    Jason,

    I much prefer depositing and withdrawing with paypal on bookies and betfair. i appreciate the 2 percent charge with betfair but its not like you have to do it very often. It speed up withdrawals from bookmakers and betfair AND keeps your trading pot separate . Also if you have a mortgage for example do you really want your lender to see you doing £4000 worth of bets per month when you come up for your next remortgage ?! finally paypal affords MORE protection than debit card, if you get into a dispute with a bookmaker etc then paypal refund back to you first and ask questions later.

  • salah says:

    Hi lee-stuart
    how much profit did you guys make in month of october ?

  • JAMES E HUNTER says:

    I MISTAKENLY UNSUBSCRIBED MYSELF FROM
    YOUR REVIEW WEBSITE,CAN YOU ADD MY EMAIL ADDRESS TO YOUR LIST AGAIN PLEASE
    AS THIS IS THE MOST INFORMATIVE AND HONEST REVIEW SITE I HAVE COME ACROSS.THE FIRST SUCH WEBSITE I USED IS NOW OVER RUN BY SO CALLED TROLLS,AND IS
    ALSO MORE OF A FRONT FOR THE PARENT
    COMPANIES PRODUCTS.I WILL NOT BE RENEWING MY PAID FOR SUBSCRIPTION TO THAT SITE. THANK YOU.

    • Ben says:

      Hi James,

      Thanks for your comments, you can re-subscribe by using the colourful box at the top of the website to the right 🙂

      Ben

  • Zoom says:

    It is a very good system.
    BUT the big problem with betfair will be that when you have made too much profit on betfair they will charge you a 60% premium charge on profit.
    When you will hit that point ( after 1000 pounds profit) this sistem will not be effective anymore.
    You should think of using betdaq or matchbook instead.

    • Ben says:

      Hi Zoom,

      You are talking nonsense. If the premium charge hit at £1K profit, then nobody would be using Betfair.

      You might want to do a little more research before making such wildly inaccurate statements.

      Ben

    • lee-stuart says:

      John

      divert any queries you have to the selections email or call the office if you have an issue with any trades, posting here with a specific query on a specific trade may mean you dont get answered quickly. I also put an announcement out to users about this trade, reminding them of the number of options they have available on the rare situations where prices fly off the handle. This includes our ‘get out of jail free’ card described in the manual .

  • Darren says:

    Hello I am thinking about rejoining but before I do each time I placed a bet the odds with betfair were the same or bigger. I know how to cash out but I am not always near a computer. Of course at times I can do this but its not 2 minutes then ??? Please help

  • Zoom says:

    Hi Ben,
    Yes sorry, I had my info wrong.
    after reading another blog I see that in order to pay 20% charge you have to:
    1.Bet on more than 250 markets (lifetime of account)
    2.Profitable account (lifetime of account)
    3.Total charges equate to less than 20% of your profit (lifetime of account)

    The 60% charge unlikely because you have to have:
    Lifetime net profits exceed £250,000
    Commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
    Bet in more than 1,000 markets…

    So yes, I was wrong , don’t bite my head off 🙂 I was just concerned about Betfair…

    I am using a similar system like the 2 minute one… for the past week I have made £740 profit on Betfair and lost £420 on bet365; so betfair charged me 5% commision on £740

    • Zoom says:

      so that is £37.
      But in reality my total profit is : £740 – £420 – £37 = £283 for the week.
      So I have now a profitable betfair account…. I should be happy, I guess I have to limit my stakes and just start scaping the market in paralel of the 2 minute trader. What do you think ?

    • Ben says:

      Hi Zoom,

      I wasn’t biting, I was just confirming that you were incorrect, after you quite boldly claimed a system wouldn’t be effective due to wrong information 🙂

      Ben

  • John says:

    Is asking for a better price the best option? Canton Prince was at odds of 5.1, I asked for a price at 5, now its gone up to 6.6.

  • Jason says:

    anyone know what profits the 2minute trader has made in the first week of november so far?

    • lee-stuart says:

      profits from 1st to 10th Nov are £143.30 on 30 selections on £50 stakes. last week was rather unusual with 6 selections withdrawn from their races . win rate for horses of their races , average profits etc all bang on our expectations as usual.

  • aguarella says:

    I have a Betfair account but I’m not in the UK : will this be an issue with this system if I can’t open aacounts with bookmakers in the UK?

  • David Smith says:

    Hi Ben

    Is it OK to use Bookmaker Apps on a smart phone? I read on another site, that they don’t recommend using Apps but just the browser on the phone! can you confirm please Ben.
    Excellent site BTW, keep up the good work.
    I’m going to get either this one or the Betfair Scalping one…decisions decisions!

    • Ben says:

      Hi David,

      Personally I would use the browser, and I think the training advises this also.

      Scalping does not matter either way as there are no bookmakers involved.

      Ben

  • Anwar says:

    Hi Ben I’ve decided to give this a go again as last time round I only paper traded and didn’t have the funds, also out of all I have purchased I think this is less stressful , I have tried betfair scalper but I think that’s for the future as I need time to practice, but in between practice I need to earn something like llast months earnings over £1000 on this system so very good,

    Now my question is, I hate having to withdraw and wait 3 days etc, I do have skrill account, so could this mean from my £700 starting bank I will have £450 at betfair and use £50 stakes at bookies, if the bet wins at the bookie I can withdraw the winnings minus the £50 deposit instantly? As I will be empty on betfair and I will need to deposit for the next race, I hope I don’t end up on a situation where the night before place all my bets at bookies and on the first race I lose at betfair and withdrawing from the winning bookie takes hours leaving me in a loss situation. I can’t use PayPal as I’m banned when I use to sell on eBay anyone else use skrill?

  • Deb says:

    Hi
    Great review, thank you for this 🙂

    Quick question. Can all this really be done on a phone, e.g. The calculators you mention , can they be done from a phone to place the lay bet the next day ?

  • mike says:

    Hi,

    I have tried similar service from other website, the price they mentioned will drastically change with within 10 mins (e.g if you login or receive an email around 6.30 pm with details about horse 1 to back at 4.8, after couple of minutes 6.45 or 7.30 pm if login to bookmakers website and see the odds then it will most of the time changes to lower odds (4.3) then what they mentioned in email or website.
    So my conclusion once if you received an email or message then you have to place an bet on bookmakers site with in 5mins or 10mins time to get the best odds what they advise.
    You might get the advised odds 4/10 times if you still delay.

    I hope this will help you guys.

    • lee-stuart says:

      mike

      your comment is about another service…not ours so your comment isnt that helpful .

      We monitor bookie prices and betfair prices and keep the data and on average our most popular selections still have prices available for at least 15 mins each night and many selections are available at best price for hours . In every situation where we’ve had someone complaining about not being able to get best price wee found they simply couldn’t be bothered to check a second or thirds bookmaker on the list we give them in the email to get best price, they’ve simply given up at the first bookmaker.

  • lee-stuart says:

    Hi Anwar,

    Youve asked a complex question as the manual makes it clear we prefer paypal. The manual also makes it clear that withdrawing all your winnings from a bookie after each race is a big NO NO. I have no experience with skrill but I suggest you look at two options, firstly open a new paypal account for private use , or secondly reduce the number of bookies you use to 2 or 3 ( so youve got less money spread around and less need to do any withdrawals) i would suggest ladbrokes , bet 365 and one other . if you follow the staking rules in the manual you wont have issues covering all your selections the next day . As a comparison I do 75% of all my bets with only one bookmaker and rarely withdraw from them as there always seems to be an ‘ambient ‘ balance in there and it can fluctuate between £100 and £300 on any given day as some win and some lose. If you want some one on one time on the phone give us a call in the office on 01252 784390 and Ill help you get the best out of the system given your challenges.

    • ignacio says:

      just for curiosity, do you have profit/lose would be made if never layed any horse? just flat bets

      • lee-stuart says:

        ignacio

        Our selectiosn win roughly a third of the time and we dont select any horse above 4.33 odds. This is not a gambling system . If you dont lay out the selections you will wipe out your account.

  • John says:

    How come there has hardly been any selections recently?

    • lee-stuart says:

      John

      We had 6 selections last night , and last week 24 overall which is exactly as expected. Im not sure why you are saying we have had hardly any ? Wed we had 2 , Tuesday 2, Monday 2 , Sunday 2, Saturday 3, Friday 5 , Thursday 4 …….

  • lee-stuart says:

    We have now added a Recovery Calculator on the website to give members the ability to reduce losses on losing trades just before the race starts.

  • lee-stuart says:

    Adarenna gives us our biggest ever profit since launch just now. £170 profit from a £50 stake , or if you had used the new recovery calculator to reduce your loss to zero then you would still have made about £40 profit from this trade with zero risk. We have another steamer still going called Scottsdale down to the 2.7 mark from 4 running later this afternoon so we are on course for the most profitable day since launch .

  • ignacio says:

    omg what a great day. grats

  • nick says:

    to lee-stuart

    you and your ‘partners’ are either {defamation removed} or no nothing about horse racing

    it is not remotely possible for any machine or human to consistently forsee the future which what this system amounts to

    i would advise you to remove this nonsense without delay before you lose any more credibility

    • Ben says:

      Hi Nick,

      It is actually very easy to see which horses are steaming based on early liquidity, and gamblers have been doing it for many years.

      Ben

    • lee-stuart says:

      Nick

      you clearly haven’t taken the time to understand this product before flying off the handle about it. It is a TRADING product where the outcome of the race is irrelevant to making profit. We don’t pick winners , we pick horses who steam down in price that we can profit from that move.

  • peter adams says:

    Hi Ben I’m t should we open? hinking of getting this, but a few things occur to me.
    1/ Will it mean having a lot of money tied up with bookies and Betfair? And how often can we withdraw from the bookies and Betfair?

    2/ Intitially, how many bookie accounts should we open?

    3/ Do we have to deposit money first with the bookmaker before they open the account and is there a minimum amount?

    4/ If I deposit money with several bookies and say don’t use a particular bookie, will I still be able to withdraw that money without a penalty?

    5/ When you open an account with bookies and Betfair, do they all want the same ID. Is it easy to send this ID with the smartphone?

    Excellent Review website Ben. Glad I found it.

    Pete

    • Ben says:

      Hi Peter,

      Thank you for the comments about the site.

      I will let Lee-Stuart answer your questions, as it is his product.

      Ben

  • peter adams says:

    Hi Ben Sorry about the gobbledegook at the beginning of my last comment. Didnt check it before sending. Pete

  • lee-stuart says:

    Peter Adamas,

    you can tie up as little or as much as you want. You choose what trading bank you want to use. I have a £500 overall pot shared between bookies and betfair that usually doubles itself most months. We dont recommend withdrawing from bookies often , and given our actual horse race win rates you dont often have to , most of your profit withdrawal will come from betfair.

    We recommend having about 5 bookies websites available but you can get by easily with 2 or 3.

    you only need to deposit when you want to actually make your first bet

    there is no reason to deposit money with a bookie unless you intend to bet with it immediately.

    ID may not be necessary at all if you show up on the voters role. otherwise they usually ask to send a copy of drivers license or passport via an email .

  • Will says:

    Hi Ben,

    How much time do you have from when you get the email to when you have to place your bet?
    Also why don’t they just back in the exchange as well to avoid being banned from the bookies?

    Thanks,
    Will

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hi Will

    Early in the evening the prices seem to move more quickly than later on so the early trades may only have 15/20 minutes before they drop but the later trades often hold for an hour or more.

    This is one reason why its easier to use a mobile phone to place the bets.

    We cannot back at the exchange because there isn’t enough money available to be matched until much nearer the race.

    If we left it until there was enough liquidity at the exchange the big price moves and therefore profits would be over.

    Tim Lowe

  • peter adams says:

    Hi Ben I realise that when you withdraw money from the bookies or Betfair via Paypal, that Paypal charge a small percentage, but I was wondering if my Bank charge for making deposits and withdrawals. Just trying to add up all the costs.

    Pete

    • Ben says:

      Hi Peter,

      The bank may very well charge for deposits, you would be best asking them for their criteria on that.

      Ben

  • Eddy says:

    Hi Ben, Lee, Tim
    read through most comments (what a pain)

    But I could not find a sure answer.

    I am working nightshifts, means I go to sleep at around 11am, so I miss the action during racing.

    I am able to place the evening bets, however I am not sure if I will be able to place the lay bets.
    So my question, do you recommend me to get it or not?

    I thought about betfair scalper, but I think I will miss most of the races

    Please advise guys

    • Ben says:

      Hi Eddie,

      There are no set up and forget methods in Betfair trading, so unfortunately if you cannot place the trades, then I would advise against Betfair trading until you have the time available to do so.

      Ben

      • Eugen says:

        Yeah, I thought because I read somewhere that you have to logt in before 11am and place the lay bets, so I thought maybe i could place the bets at around 11am and go to sleep. But I have to monitor before every race?

  • Anwar says:

    Hi can someone who uses this give detail of profit being made for November or in December ? Just want to know if this is still going strong? Many thanks

  • Wayne says:

    Hi, I have the same question as Anwar.
    How did this fare in Nov / Dec, and also why does this no longer appear on the list of systems of this (moneymakers reviewed) website?
    Thanks in advance 🙂

    • Ben says:

      Hi Wayne,

      I only test, I do not continue with what I review, I just see if it worked during testing, then leave it to members unless it is something I am generally interested in.

      As for the list of systems, there are many reviews on this site that do not get ‘free’ exposure in the list of systems.

      Ben

  • James says:

    I got a question, and this must have been asked before…but why are users not advised to use smarkets instead of betfair because once the odds drop it will always pick the same price in betfair as smarkets.

    My second question is why are users not advised to lay at the same evening the odds get sent out to the users?

    Lastly, why are users not advised to cash out once lay price are higher than the back price?

  • Ben says:

    Hi,

    It seems that 2 Minute Trader has now closed.

    To see what is working, and has been tested please click here

    Ben

  • Ben says:

    .

    2 Minute Trader Plus Launched

    Hi,

    Please note that I was alerted to the new version of 2 Minute Trader Launching today, which is around £80 per month.

    Please note that I am NOT recommending that on this review because I have not tested it. This review was for the original version of the product.

    Please see the link above for products that I do recommend.

    Ben

  • Minimalist says:

    £79.96 a month for this now they are having a laugh aint they ben??

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Minimalist

    Nope, we’re not having a laugh at all.

    People have been making roughly twice what we thought they would plus we’ve introduced new things like the recovery calculator and customer support (which was not part of the deal previously) and Irish selections as well so all in all its a much more valuable product.

    The basic system is the same but we have added extra ways to make money essentially.

    Plenty of people have made around £4,000 in 4 months with this so at the new price it would still be cheap but the other thing is that we now know the market depth and how many people we can support so we will close the doors when we are at that number and then re-open if some people leave or not if they don’t.

    Tim Lowe

  • Cam says:

    anyone got a link to the cheaper version I was going to sign up before x mas but I didnt get around to it, it was this or bookie blow out

    • Tim Lowe says:

      Cam

      I’m sorry but that wouldn’t work as the cheaper offer is only open to people who already tried it and cancelled i.e. returning customers. Obviously we check and wouldn’t set up an account for you if you tried to use somebody else’s credentials.

      Tim Lowe

  • peter Singleton says:

    Hi Ben

    I have read your website for a few months now and am still trying to decide which product to buy, and try. I am brand new to this lark so any advice on the easiest entry would be appreciated. I have emailed you over the weekend also to ask for advice.
    Yours,
    Pete

  • Matt Travis says:

    I have to say the marketing on 2mintraderplus is obscene. The Recovery calculator is broken but they are charging over £75 for backing short priced favourites the night before. In the last 3 months the profit has been not worth it and it takes hours not minutes to make this work.

  • tony says:

    There are a number of problems with it this system. Firstly the £80 monthly charge is ludicrous, it seems the favourites are just randomly chosen the night before as there’s been a lot of losing trades especially recently. Also I’ve noticed that the advice given on when to lay is a load of garbage, it’s merely just guessing and more often than not you need to do the complete opposite to what is recommended in order to make any money. I agree with Matt’s comment that it sometimes takes hours, not minutes to make this work as you need to keep monitoring prices the day after. The recovery calculator is all over the show and Oh you’ll probably end up losing your bookie accounts as it can be perceived as delayed arbitrage. Other than that, great…

  • Keith says:

    Hi Tim/Lee
    Can you confirm the recent results of TMT please,I’m on the fence with this one,I believe if £500/£1000 per month is realistic with this system then the price is reasonable also even if it takes a few hours per day is also reasonable for the return.Would like to know the results before I purchase.
    Thanks
    Keith.

  • spudmeister5 says:

    Can only agree with the previous comment. Yes I have made a fair amount of money using this but I have not made a penny in 2017. Most of the prices of the horses go up instead of down and the recovery calculator doesn’t work like it should. Also recently I’ve had my Bet365 account restricted (which is the main bookie they use) so I’m now limited to 3 bookies, all of which rarely offer the best price. Will likely pack this in very soon as I feel the system has ran out of steam.

  • Chickenheed says:

    2 minute trader it definitely isn’t!

    Money can be made from this, no question but the amount of effort required to manage the trades can take up much more time than they say.

  • JodyM says:

    I’ve just about had it with this ‘system’, it’s lost it’s edge it did once have but it’s almost completely useless now. In the last 4 days I’ve LOST money with this so how the owners can portray it in the way they do is I feel now very much a {admin has removed the defamation}. Thank God I don’t pay the full amount (I started on this early so got it cheaper). I’ll be cancelling this very soon as it’s losing money now and I’ve lost my Ladbrokes and Bet365 accounts doing this too to add insult to injury. It’s got to the point now when I’m relieved there’s a non-running horse picked just so that I don’t lose any money! Avoid this at all costs, like I said, it was once good but the market seems to always be turning against it now so there is no edge any more, there’s a lot better trading systems out there.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Fascinating ‘all of a sudden’ negative feedback for a system which certainly has losses BUT which wins 70% of the time – fact.

    I would be delighted to see ALL the trades listed that this sudden batch of people losing have placed.

    We are about to update the public side of the website to show every single race selected by us along with the real period of time the back bet was available with a graph showing Betfair’s tick data.

    This will be available for any public scrutiny since it’s not our data but the bookie’s/Betfair’s.

    Any fool will be able to see the winning and losing trades and why these silly comments are at best mistaken and at worst fictitious.

    Tim Lowe

  • Ben says:

    Hi,

    I can confirm that the above posts are genuine, with valid email addresses (that could potentially be traced back as a customer), and that all are on valid IP addresses.

    Thank you,

    Ben

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Ben

    I am sure the people have posted on your site, that is not what I meant by fictitious. There is a long distance between claiming something does not work and that being true.

    People embellish stories all the time. You need look no further than American politics for endless examples of ‘facts’ presented alternatively.

    We know our results and have literally hundreds of happy customers so these latest comments cannot represent a true reflection of the entire situation.

    But I’m happy to be proved wrong if the people concerned would care to post their results we can easily see who is right and how is wrong. The data is all there to decide the matter transparently.

    Tim Lowe

    • spudmeister5 says:

      Hi Tim,

      I’m not trying to be negative at all, I’m just giving my point of view after being a member since Sept 2016. I have had to unsubscribe from this service today as I have been restricted on almost all the bookmakers despite following all the rules on how to try and avoid being restricted. Also I’m finding the prices aren’t really dropping like they did last year and I’m finding myself having to use £450-£500 worth of liability on some trades that require a recovery, which is not a problem, but if the horse goes on and wins, I will need to deposit again into my betfair account and of course they have a 2% commission so I’m losing money when doing that. I’m certainly not complaining though, the money I have made with this will probably pay for a 3 week holiday to Australia later this year. I wouldn’t say I’m being negative, I just think the system will only be effective for a few months as the bookies eventually caught on to me. I sent my thanks to Lee/Michelle earlier.

      Thanks

  • Dan says:

    i can only echo what spudmeister5 has said. im gubbed from several major bookies despite following the rules.the important thing to know is if the bookies see a betting pattern/taking value/in profit they will restrict you no matter what.

    the amount of drifters in the last few months have doubled. There is even days where we have 8 selections and they all drift. it is ok using the super duper recovery calculator but if you dont match in running you lose a heck of alot.

    i have cancelled my subscription and wont be returning. the new price is crazy! I made £200 on £100 stakes in january. that says it all for me.

  • lee-stuart evans says:

    All our results are fully available in the Results and Analysis section on our website. This details win rates ( around 80% as I type this) the amount of time the selections were available at the best and second best prices and how long the trades were profitable the next day. we also show where the RC would have been effective and got filled for selections and show how the new updated recovery calc turns losing trades into winning trades. the statement that the number of drifters has doubled is simply wrong and the data supports it. With no indication of the number of actual trades taken etc its impossible to answer anything else about anyones specific issues they have had. since Feb first the system is up £500 on £50 stakes. One of our best months yet . more selections , more trades , higher win rate and more profits… things go from strength to strength AND we have all the data on display to prove it. Im always available to members for support on the phone and email should people need help. Ive yet to have any member gubbed that hasnt done something ghastly and wrong . It is Tims plan to make our results and analysis section public over the next few days and it will remain there with daily updated figures. All the data is there and can easily be verified from betfair data etc. Once this is done I’m fairly certain those few moaning about this product will fall very silent .

  • Dan says:

    500 on 50 stakes but the results page just shows what the price went to on that day. when you tell us to lay before it drifts and it comes in nearer to the race for a profit this cannot be called a profitable trade. and same for when you say i think this will go to 2.8 and it goes out to 3.8 this also a loosing trade but the stats say it is profitable. everyone results will be different depending on when you lay the horse.

    • lee-stuart evans says:

      Dan,

      my morning overview emails are there for guidance . You dont have to take my guidance. I had an email from a user this morning thanking me for the daily useful emails. Sometimes I don’t get it right, which isn’t really that surprising . Again rather than pick on one poor call why not go back through all the morning emails and look at the results and analysis page and see how uncanny my predictions are on most days. Better still why not call me or email me direct and Im more than happy to coach you personally rather than have to message here.

  • Dave says:

    I think this system is just embarrassing itself now judging by the latest trades on offer. Yesterday for instance, all 5 were losing trades (ok 1 actually made a small profit in the end) which is bad enough but then the author’s changed the results page to indicate there were in fact 3 winning trades. They changed the colour of at least one which was red, to green. I noticed this and also the expected lay line moves too to what they feel like putting, basically manipulating the results. Today looks to be no better in terms of overall profit/loss on trades. I stand by some of my original comments about this system, there’s just no way you are making £500 on £50 stakes for this month. Break even, maybe a small profit at best. Not good enough when you place bets between £50-£100. Plus the amount of work involved is this really worth it? You could easily do this yourself if you think about it, the recovery calc is easy to work out too with some quick, easy calculations. Sadly, this product has had it’s day, can’t believe that they charge double now then when it was actually making money!

  • lee-stuart evans says:

    Dave

    The change on the results is made about 10 minutes after the race when the programming takes into account the SP posted ( which takes time for the bookies to post) and confirms what the Recovery Calc could have done to the trade. In many cases with losing trades as we would expect the recovery calc allows you to take advantage of the price drift and reduce losses or even turn them into profits.

    to judge todays trades BEFORE theyve run is clearly silly, and we had 2 BOG payouts yesterday as well, not that youve taken the time to mention that ! a total of 1.5 times stake MORE than expected yesterday in profits for some members on 2 of the ‘losing ‘ trades.

    The results and analysis section shows the betfair prices which you can independently confirm , and you can see that if you look through all the trades since the relaunch on the 1st of Feb members had hours of opportunity with most trades to take big profits. The results speak for themselves and any short term individual losses are to be expected in any 70 to 80% win rate system.

  • Dave says:

    Lee,
    I take on board your points but as you say the results do indeed speak for themselves. I have every right to judge today’s trades which can be done easily at 10.00am. We know what will be a losing trade and what will be a profitable one by then, give or take. Already today I have LOST money on the first two trades, even using the calc. to ‘tidy up’ as you put it. Using the recovery calc. is having to be used more and more when it wasn’t a month or so ago and it’s STILL not accurate enough to reduce losses sufficiently in my opinion. 4 out of 5 trades lost me money yesterday albeit 2 were only a few pence but still losing nonetheless. Overall a bad day at the office. Your argument about the BOG payout is completely irrelevant as you always advise to reduce losses in-play which therefore neutralises any potential winnings if using the break-even method and therefore forfeit any BOG payout. I still lost on 2 of the trades as the calc. did not reduce the losses to zero. Also, half the time the trades aren’t matched in-play which leads to potentially huge losses. Another problem. So it’s been a poor return in general this month. Judging by the previous negative comments I’m not the only one and this can’t reflect well for New members, what with a LOT of losing trades, the calc. being used at potentially inconvenient times and not tidying up trades sufficiently, the lack of real movers the next day, the manipulation of the results tab etc. You know what, it would actually be a lot better if you admitted the failings and rectify them, like actually finding winning trades before a race which is the main reason people buy into this, rather than portray this in a light which is kind of misleading and losing customers money.

  • Fat Tony says:

    I’ve recently finished reading the first Game of Thrones book. Suffice to say, it was less of a work of fiction than the ‘morning emails’ that I receive on a daily basis.

    The gabbled jargon of ‘downward steamers’ coupled with price targets so unrealistic they make the Dragons and Trolls of George RR Martins work seem like real history – means that this ‘system’ has reached the end of its shelf life.

    Bow out Tim, for whilst every dog has his day, the sun has set on this preposterous display of guesswork and brinkmanship.

  • Tim Lowe says:

    Hmmmm…Fat Tony…

    This conversation is becoming more absurd by the day. Comments like yours have no credibility and serve only to underline the prevalence of the whole ‘fake news’ situation which is currently making headlines.

    The sun has not set, but let me ask you why you think it has? Whatever we were doing last year when people (such as Spudmeister above, have said they made £1,000 a month) has NOT changed. The same software is using the same criteria to make selections and any buffoon with the ability to look at our website and t6eh Betfair tick data can see that we get it right over 70% of the time before accounting for any other profit enhancing things, like BOGs.

    We have added in Irish races (NOT ONE of which has lost BTW) but otherwise nothing has changed in the selections so what – you believe the entire horse racing market has changed suddenly since Christmas.

    ‘Fat Tony’ – here’s what I think. Either you really don’t understand how to use the system or you are simply trying to stop people buying this system for your own reasons (like maybe you’d like people to buy yours instead, after all how can anybody know who you are? Ben may well check IP addresses but I’ve posted on this site and others from Starbucks, hotels and so on, so IP addresses mean nothing at all).

    Here’s a challenge for you.

    Come see me and PROVE that you are actually a real customer and that our figures are wrong and that what used to work no longer does and I’ll happily right you a £1,000 cheque for you or charity.

    I confidently predict you will have many ‘good reasons’ for not proving your points.

    Tim Lowe

  • lee-stuart evans says:

    Dave ,

    still not accurate enough ? The recovery calc is massively improved from before. You cannot deny that they make a dent in losses , they may still be small losing trades for you , but it HAS reduced your loss, a feature the original product didnt have . your claim that half dont get filled in play is utter nonsense and needs no further mention. Poor return in general for the month ?… you mean up £550 as of today ?!! we arent manipulating the data as I explained in the previous message ( all our data is veriyable)

    If you arent happy give me a call and ill see what i can do to help , but all you do is make broad statements with no specifics and for anyone thats a member who can see all the data what you claim is simply wrong ..

  • Ben says:

    Hi,

    Just to clarify the IP situation.

    The IP address will still give the location of the poster no matter where they are posting from, and comments with proxy IP’s are never set live for obvious reasons.

    Ben

  • will says:

    Lee/Tim

    The profit you claim has been made on £50 stakes is a farce. No one will take the lowest price of each selection every day this month. Fact. Maybe someone will get a few low prices but consistently every day? No chance. Profits will be different for everyone. The guys above all say its been poor so i am inclined to listen to them.

    So i repeat the xxx made from £50 stakes is laughable. The results are not as clear cut as you try to make people believe.

    good day

  • mofo says:

    Definitely not worth £80/month. Save your money and make your own selections.
    The link between their selections and falling prices is so weak it’s hardly better than chance. The calculators are useful but could be reproduced quite easily in excel. Also, if you are going to make a decent profit from this method as it stands the time commitment is significant.
    So it only works if you are trading full time already or available in the day time.

  • Ben says:

    Hi everyone,

    This is a review of a product/service. The customers have given their view, and so have the promoters, and therefore to prevent this page turning into a series of arguments, the thread is being locked.

    Thread locked.

    Ben

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